The Mentalist Red Velvet Cupcakes Review


Synopsis

After nagging at his colleague and former lover Grace Van Pelt (Righetti) who was late at the crime scene, Wayne Rigsby (Yeoman) joins Cho (Kang) near the body. Since Jane (Baker) isn’t present, Rigsby proceeds to describe to him the specifics of the crime over the phone. They soon realize that the victim and her absent husband had been participating in a radio talk show for couples having problems.

Concise Verdict
Rebecca Perry Cutler gave us here a very well-written and well-though episode. When so many commenters have been complaining about the lack of progress in the relationship between the two lead characters, she answered to their pleas and even added an unexpected and audacious new turn of events in the Van Pelt/Rigsby storyline. It gives an interesting and much needed recap on personal questions before the season finale. Some deliciously sweet and addictive “Cupcakes” we got!

Detailed AKA Humongous Review (spoilers galore)
Two major arcs are entwined through the episode. They concern the two potential couples in the team: Rigsby and Van Pelt, whose relationship has been on and off in the history of the show and Jane and Lisbon, whose interaction gives off particularly ambiguous vibes here.

Lisbon and Jane: complicity/ intimacy…
VIS # 1: Jane in the attic, part I
For once, the episode doesn’t open up with the protagonist arriving at the crime scene, it’s a glimpse of Wayne and Grace’s tense relation that introduces the murder of the week. The male agent is bothered by his ex-lover’s new supposed new relationship and snaps at her for being late. As there is no sign of their consultant, Risgby calls him on the phone and discovers that the older man is –unsurprisingly- still holed up in his attic at the CBI building… In fact, Jane is studying the board and that right away reminds the viewers of the fact that Kirkland has a copy of it now.
While pacing his dusty very own headquarter, Jane accepts to help them out with the case, without leaving the room: Rigsby will be his ears and eyes. Variants of this scene have occurred thorough the seasons. For instance Jane has been blinded once and relied on the others’ eyes to unravel a mystery and even to drive a car (twice); he has also helped out Lisbon once to find a bomb on the phone, relying on her description and his prodigious memory… so this new form of investigating from afar is not completely unheard of from Jane, still it illustrates further his extensive skills and presents him again as an expert in his area, like in ‘Red in Teeth and Claws’ and in ‘Red, White and Blue’. Like fictional detective Nero Wolfe, whose books were seen in ‘Red Lacquer Nail Polish’, he acts as an “armchair detective” who lets the others do the legwork and collect the information while he takes over the task of analysing it and synthesizing it into a valid theory… Thus he’s able to deduce that the victim had couple problems; he’s focused from the start on the relationship the late Missy Roberts had with her husband. That’s why he guides Rigsby through the rooms susceptible of enlightening him: “I want to understand their relationship. Bedrooms say a lot”.
In the kitchen, Rigsby finds the ‘Red Velvet Cupcakes’ which gave its name to the episode. They are another example of Jane’s skills since he knows that Wayne has discreetly taken one of those « awesome looking cupcakes » and asks him to « put that cupcake back ». At the same time, they’re also the symbol of Missy’s unhappy marriage, since she disagreed with her husband about food as she loved to bake, whereas he was on a diet.

Right from the start, the plot seems centred on relationships. The red gerberas daisies -that are showed on the kitchen counter with insistence- confirm that impression. The red flowers link the scene to the general RJ arc; the daisies are also flowers generally connected to love. Plucking a daisy is indeed a well-known game to know if someone loves you or not and, amusingly, it matches the one Wayne will be later playing with Grace…
VIS # 2: Jane in the attic, part II
But the major goal of the scene is to present a stark contrast with the second time Jane’s called on the case. Indeed, later Lisbon comes to the attic door after the lead about the husband has been mostly discarded.
Like the first time, Jane is reluctant and tries to chalk off the clues which tend to innocent Kip Roberts as forged ones. He seems pretty eager to dismiss the case in order to concentrate in his main activity: catching RJ. Indeed, his apparent nonchalance is refuted by his awareness of his surrounding: like he did with Cho in the previous episode, he recognizes Lisbon before even hearing her voice. Same with his lake of activity: Lisbon assumes he’s working on his list, but actually he’s lounging on his makeshift bed and reading. He almost looks like a lazy and unenthusiastic teenager whose mother is knocking on his bedroom door because dinner is ready… still, that’s again an appearance because it seems that Jane just doesn’t want to leave the attic, either because he waits for Kirkland to make a move, or because he had falsified the board in order to trick him in the last episode and is now guarding the real one… Either way, the shot from above him while he’s reading reminds of the view we’d have from a camera surveillance. As commenters C Hill, Old Man and Zee pointed out for ‘Behind the Red Curtain, the filming tends to suggest that he’s being watched.
Since Jane has decided to ignore her attempts at convincing him, Lisbon then plays her last card: she tells him the magic words “I need you”… Jane pauses and abruptly comes with her, to her great surprise. He answers her plea with a heartfelt: « it’s nice to be needed. Anything for you, Lisbon »… So he refused to come for professional reasons like solving the case, yet he doesn’t hesitate when she makes the matter personal and reach out for his help. It’s the same pattern than when she asked him to help her get Volker: she told him “I need your help” and in the next episode he was all over the place trying to get the bad guy and subtly threatening him. Now, things go a notch further: Lisbon is not threatened by anyone like was by Volker and the case doesn’t involve a mass murderer. Plus, it isn’t his “help” that he requests because she has no other mean to get to the truth: it’s just him. Things are indeed getting pretty personal and they are aware of the change: they briefly look at each other and a myriad of emotions are expressed in Lisbon’s face, before settling with a mix of smugness and surprise. It’s a meaningful moment.
In fact, their complicity is in dire contrast with Rigsby’s jealousy and the couple problems the victim faced. Their closeness shines even through a later scene, when, after following her o the field and interrogating the Missy’s sister, he discovers another titbit of information about Lisbon: she knows the radio talk show the victim and her husband attended to, « Prescription for Love »… When Lisbon caught her consultant staring meaningfully at her, she tries to plays it off as something she “listened to in [her] car a few times”. Jane tells her he would go to the radio station and he’d leave her the “shady baker” Missy worked for. And then Lisbon betrays her interest in coming too, to Jane’s great delight («Ahaha, that’s ‘cause you’re a fan”). He proceeds to tease her merciless, adding “it’s fine Lisbon, we all have our guilty pleasures”. He’s very gleeful to learn something new about her…

VIS # 3: Jane and Lisbon at the radio studio
At the radio studio, Jane and Lisbon are mistaken for a couple auditioning for a session… Lisbon answers bluntly with a awkward “we’re not a couple, please” and, faced with the receptionist’s expressionless stare, Jane remarks helpfully “what she means is that our is more of a platonic love”. He’s obviously teasing her and annoying the woman at her desk since he keeps stuffing his pockets with sweets.
Still, his matter-of-fact tone might remind us viewers that he may be a bit serious: after all, he has confessed in the previous season finale that he loves her (in whatever sense that “love” has to be taken); and indeed, whatever they have is “platonic”, they haven’t been and are not sleeping together. So he’s announcing to the world that they have feelings for each other, but that they’re not acting on them (no sex, no actual relationship)… He’s acknowledging for the first time with words that there may be something going on between them, and does it as a joke… like he did somehow when he pretended not to remember what he said in ‘The Crimson Hat’, he’s making progress but still takes care of staying in the grey zone… And he deepens the impression that he’s teasing her when, after she has flashed her badge as a response, he adds for the receptionist that “she’s very excited” to see the love doctor she listens to on the radio.
Jane is very jovial in this episode, may it be because he knows he’s making progress on the RJ investigation and it cheers him up, or because Lisbon took a step towards him. Anyway, his attentions are concentrated of her.

VIS # 4: Jane and the love doctor
After provoking a bit the control freak producer, Jane becomes serious again when they interrogate Buddy Hennings, the lover doctor who had been counselling the Missy and Kip. He’s actually the second love specialist Jane has met, the first being Erica Flynn, and the atmosphere of the scene and in the studio is pretty different: there is not some much seduction there as questions being asked and answered…
Interestingly, there is a red poster behind them and there are various elements in the same color in the studio (as there ware in the reception area), therefore almost every shot features a glimpse of a reddish object behind them during the talk. Which is pretty fruitful, but not on the murder aspect.
After Lisbon leaves to answer her phone, Jane asks Buddy if it was Missy who wanted help with her marriage, not Kip. Hennings answers that “in the beginning, he was going along to get along, but he turned the corner”, explaining: “in the first few sessions he was very distant, very uncooperative, to anyone but Missy… But after a couple of sessions, he developed an attentiveness for the work I hadn’t seen before. He really changed.” Jane is sceptic and remarks: “well, you know, maybe he was covering that he felt guilty for something, like having an affair.” Henning disagrees and maintains good-naturedly that he thinks the therapy was working.
Ok, so, are they talking of the victim’s marriage or about Jane’s reaction concerning his work spouse during the events involving Lorelei? Because that’s an almost exact description of Jane’s behavior in the few lasts episodes: he’s been trying to shut Lisbon out of his interrogations of Lorelei, and very “uncooperatively” organised the woman’s escape behind his partner’s back. Then, he “turned the corner” too when Lisbon confronted him in ‘There Will Be Blood’ about the mess he created and his feelings for the other woman: since then, his “attentiveness” for keeping her on his side has increased, and there is a kind of paroxysm in this episode. Therefore, it’s rather intriguing that Jane himself pointed out that he may have acted that way because he was feeling “guilty for […] having an affair” since it was Lorelei who endangered his working/personal relation with his partner… It’s almost as if he was admitting too that he may be feeling guilty for keeping his agenda while being so close to Lisbon.
That angle is developed a bit more later, when they find at last the missing husband in a hotel room. The red corridor leads them to a jungle-themed room where Kip is restrained on the bed with a black-leather-clap dominatrix entertaining him… Jane is thrilled and comments: “jungle theme. It’s classy.” In some twisted way, Kip endangering his marriage with a SM affair in a pseudo-jungle décor and trying to cover up for it reminds a bit of Jane: he’s putting his closeness with Lisbon at risk by obsessing with his hurtful masochist struggle with RJ the tiger. The similarity also is deepened by the detail of Missy being like a second mother for her sister, a role Lisbon has assumed for her brothers during her teenage years…

VIS # 5: Jane watches the video
Back at the studio, Jane finds himself again in a room decorated with reddish elements: this time, it’s a brick wall in Buddy’s office. The wheels in his mind are already working when he sees the poster on the wall featuring two feet with different woman shoes… several details already pointed out toward the feet angle and the connection seems even more visible in his mind when he watches the video of the session Kid and Missy had with Hennings: Jane freezes the frame where it’s obvious that Hennings has been staring at the golden stilettos on Missy’s feet…
Again, that moment reminds us of the episode with Erica: Jane had been watching the video of Sarah, whose love life the pretty widow was helping to improve… And the same thing occurs here: Jane finds a clue in the manner the interview has been progressing and discovers that the so-called love specialist is flawed. In Erica’s case, she was helping people find true love, while she kept seducing men she didn’t care about and she killed her husband because he was planning to stop her business… Buddy, on the other hand, helps couple overcome their problems, whereas he compulsively loves feet and keeps staring at a “patient” in front of her husband. Worst, he was also having an affair with her, endangering his own couple. That’s a rather cynic vision of love therapy. Moreover, the episode isn’t focused on seduction like it was with Erica, but more on problematic and complicated relationships and as so it matches the evolution of his friendship with Lisbon… probably even with the sexual undertones. One may wonder if the progression from a seduction episode to a couple therapy one is a way to subtly indicate that, because of the hardships they’ve been encountering, their bond has matured into something deeper and more significant…
Anyway, Jane’s plan is motion: he offers Van Pelt an unexpected gift in a red/dark pink box (like the pink donuts box in the previous episode). Jane seems eager to give gifts to his team, may they be useful or just for fun: he bought them all something from the museum gift shop not so long ago; since we didn’t get Grace’s reaction back then, we can infer that she liked her fossil because she considers her unexpected present as a nice surprise. Jane might also have spoiled them a bit because Lisbon endearingly asks “nothing for me?” He answers: “Trust me, you won’t like it” while Van Pelt uncovers a pair of black stilettos… Like she has been in the past seasons, the gorgeous red-headed is used by her consultant as distracting candy-eye in one of his schemes… and, even though it isn’t the most appropriate of gifts from a coworker, Grace tries them on good-naturedly. To reassure her boss who is a little wary of his action, Jane then quotes Sherlock Holmes and announces to his own Watson that “the game is afoot” before comically correcting “two feet” in reference to the shoes… Again, his relation with Lisbon is indirectly put under the spotlight: she’s his Watson, his partner, she expects a gift too and he knows her well enough to infer what her tastes are in shoes. She, on the other hand, wants to know what he’s doing: she’s back to being a bit wary of him.
Later, Jane talks with the couple who was interviewed when he was at the studio. He gives advices to the boyfriend, once again next to a red wall: the young man is dominated by his girlfriend (he’s even holding her bag while talking to Jane). The consultant asks « when was the last time you were completely honest with her, the last time you disagreed with her? », adds that « she will respect » him if he holds his ground and that « women love a strong man »… are those the beliefs behind his relation with Lisbon? Is he antagonising her to earn her respect, misbehaving to prove her he’s strong? Maybe those words aren’t mean to be compared to his own attitude, but they are nonetheless a bit intriguing… Either way, we didn’t get to see if his counselling worked: either because the young man convinced his girlfriend or because they broke off, the couple cancelled the session, thus giving “Dwayne and Stace” the opportunity to pose as a couple.

Wayne and Grace: it is love
A major discussion has been building up between Van Pelt and Rigsby since the very beginning of ‘Red Velvet Cupcakes’: he was jealous when she was late because of her supposed “hot date” with Duncan the night before. During a stake-out, Grace attempted to talk it out in the car but he was reluctant to go to the bottom of things and he only said “I’ve been feeling kinda weird since you’ve been back” and explains that he’s been thinking about her before asking her if she has been thinking about him too. That Grace wanted to discuss the matter was a sign of her increased maturity since the beginning of their story: in the early stage of their relationship, she simply avoided the subject of his interest in her… Also, Van Pelt is the more prone at calmly discussing a situation with her former lover: the car conversation reminded that she was the one who instigated the talk about him moving on after their break-up just before having an accident with O’Laughlin; it was her who tried to put him at ease in the car outside a bar when he was dealing with his troublesome father in ‘Like A Red-Headed Stepchild’. On the contrary, Wayne tends to tell her what he thinks during rather abrupt outbursts: telling her he loved her when she was about to get married, asking her to have a talk with him when she’s about to leave the office in ‘Red Letter Day’…
Still, both share a past and obviously care for the other: Grace has kept on her desk the orchid he gave her in the previous episode while he still remembers her size in shoes.

VIS # 6: Grace and Wayne have their long overdue talk… on air
That may explain how things got out of end during their fake session with Buddy Hennings. First, the couple follows the plan and simply states that they have “communication problems”. When Buddy asks them to elaborate, Rigsby helpfully and comically explains that they have “problems talking to each other”. But half-truths don’t do the trick and they are soon forced to share a bit more of their real history… Making Lisbon quite uncomfortable when Buddy asks them how the sex was. Indeed, the scene is laced with snippets of Jane and Lisbon listening to the talk show in the car: at first, they shared an amused glance at their friend’s situation. But after the sex question, Lisbon is obviously embarrassed and remarks “we shouldn’t be listening to this, really.” But Jane doesn’t share her scruples about listening on colleagues (“Oh, come on, Lisbon, don’t be such a prude!,”). Their opposed views on the question of privacy show there and it reflect a sensible tension in the car.
Wayne and Grace resume their “rocky history”: Rigsby attacks first and lets his anger surface when he evoked their break up because she thought the job was more important. He then adds that she “got engaged to a maniac”. It’s obvious that Rigsby has absolutely not moved on about those parts of their past that he resented as betrayals, given how eager he is to confront his former lover about them. But soon, tables are turned and he has to give explanations about the baby he had with Sarah, when he and Grace were “totally off”. That’s the pivotal moment when Van Pelt shows how much more mature she has become over the years and after the tragedies brought in her life. She calmly explains: “For the record, I’m not angry about the baby. I just found weird that you had a baby with someone you barely knew”. She tells him that she loved him and we get that wonderful insight in her mind: “when we were together, we were kids. I was a young naïve girl. I wasn’t ready to commit to you. It wasn’t about the job, it was an outlet […] We’re not the same, but that’s ok. I like who I am now. I like who you are. You’re a man.” Rigsby only answers that his feelings for her haven’t changed.
It’s really amusing that all the drama between those two could be summed up in one scene; it makes a great show indeed as Buddy and Jane pointed out… Beside, that incredibly straightforward and thorough talk enlightens how different those two are: even though he tried to built a life without her with Sarah and Ben, Wayne hasn’t moved on. It seems Sarah was right in refusing his proposal: he’s not in touch with his feelings, pines after a past he hasn’t been able to renounce to. Meanwhile, Grace has learnt to distance herself from her mistakes and has grown up: contrary to Rigsby, she’s aware of his progress as well as her own and respects him and herself for that. What a character development since her difficult grief in the past season!
All the while, Jane and Lisbon are in the car, listening. Jane is amused and Lisbon embarrassedly looks through the window, but she’s interested in what is happening. Both share an occasional glance which betrays their complicity, but the fact that they’re looking at the other quite often when he/she isn’t looking and their lack of verbal comments also indicate that they’re pretty tense. The question is why: are they overwhelmed by those details about their co-workers? Or, given how close Jane’s actions appeared to be to Kip’s in the recap Buddy gave him of his session, is that very personal talk making them think about their own past and the mistakes they have done?
VIS # 7: both arcs get a conclusion
After the real killer is arrested, she is interrogated back in the CBI building. She fits under the category of the unrepentant murderers we have been acquainted to recently: her words that « it felt good » remind of those the killer in ‘Red Letter Day’ uttered to Jane. Same with the creepy murderers in ‘Red, White and Blue’ and in ‘Red Lacquer Polish’: they were all unremorseful and blamed others for their acts. Is that a way to suggest that Jane’s revenge is getting close and that it will “feel good” too? That may explain the cheerfulness he showed in this episode and maybe, maybe his willingness to get even closer to Lisbon, since he might be hoping that his quest will be over soon…
Either way, after the case is closed, Lisbon is lingering in the kitchen and seems to be seeking Jane’s company. The woman seems pretty dejected –she was probably more a fan of Buddy than she was willing to let on. Jane picks up on her thoughtfulness right away and understands it has something to do with the foot fetish that was bothering her in the car. Since he’s not prone to let her get away such a titillating subject, he tells her: “your brows are furrowed and you have that squinty look in your eye. You want to talk to me about that foot fetish, but the Catholic schoolgirl in you tells you it’s not appropriate.” Her answer is honest and things get oddly personal: “you’re right. I don’t get it. I can’t wrap my mind around it”. Jane only answers that “everyone has that thing, that’s just…that’s human nature.” Alas, poor Lisbon didn’t realize where this conversation was heading and that her nosy consultant is eager to know more about her than just her preferences in radio stations; she fells right in the trap and lets slip “I don’t”. Jane begins to prod her: “oh, come on, Lisbon, don’t deny yourself that freedom. There is definitely something out there that works for you, that flukes your switch… Like turtlenecks” That makes Lisbon clamp up at once: “you’re right: it isn’t appropriate.” As she exits the room, Jane gleefully repeats that it’s turtlenecks, very happy to have made her angry after needling his very professional team leader into a sex talk.
That “turtleneck” thing is pretty ambiguous: is Jane just fishing for information? Or is he alluding to the man Lisbon has been most interested in so far in the show, Walter Mashburn, who coincidently was wearing a red turtleneck in ‘Red Hot’ when he managed to seduce her? If the comment was indeed referring to good old Mash, one may wonder if Jane was purposely trying to provoke Lisbon… or, if he was evoking the past of his relationship with Teresa too: given how both Grace and Rigsby have expressed repressed jealousy about the other’s affairs, are we to consider that Jane is slyly doing the same in bringing on her fling with Mashburn? Or is that talk only yet another way to tease the shippers by linking Lisbon’s sexual preferences with another man? It’s not the first time that Jane would have been interested in her love life and her relations with other men (Mashburn, Bosco, her former fiancé…), but here things seem to get more personal: he’s asking her something very private about her, not trying to grasp how her past love stories worked… And, whatever the reason, that scene hints once more that Jane is the one willing to make them make progress towards a still unexplored “something more”: he is the once who keeps trying to get her to loosen up with him, calling her “prude” and “Catholic schoolgirl”, like he was the one who used the love word, who asked her to call him Patrick (‘Devil’s Cherry’). In this episode, he admitted that he would do anything for her; while she’s the one who keep being hesitant and wary, of this plans, but probably of his true intentions too. She never asks him to elaborate: she didn’t push the matter further when he said he didn’t remember what he had told her in ‘The Crimson Hat’; she didn’t comment either on Lorelei’s words that he was “a little bit in love with her’ (except for yelling that she was not his girlfriend, that is…). Here, she doesn’t verbally react to anything he’s blurting: neither to the “anything for you” nor to the “platonic love” part. She also lets slide the “prude” comment and his interest for her possible fetish… She only stops talking to him and gives their interaction in this episode an interesting conclusion: she leaves the room angry, unlike in the beginning when he came to her. There is metaphorically as well as visually a push and pull movement between them… and that is a way to sum up their level of intimacy for the season finale…
Also, it’s pretty funny that the episode enlightens various sorts of sexual quirks/ “guilty pleasures”… A physical one (the foot fetish), a reaction to a particular touch (“when she hits me, it turns me on”), a cloth that turns on (turtlenecks)… That may makes one wonder what Jane’s “switch” is as other categories are left without explicit examples… Indeed, since the beginning of the season, Jane has been hinting that he likes commanding women: he told Lisbon “I like it when you get all authoritarian on me” (‘Not One Red Cent’); he commented that Lisbon’s determination to get Volker was giving him goosebumps; he even told Lorelei that he admired strong women (‘Red Sails in the Sunset’). Still, it seems that the real thing that works as a switch and makes him change his course of actions are three magic words: “I need you”…
Meanwhile, Grace decided to take the matter with Wayne in her own hands: after putting on some other sexy shoes, she goes to Rigsby’s home and kisses him. Both enter the house in a passionate embrace… Therefore, it seems that the scenes between both potential couples are responding to the other, like they did when the former lovers were in a session and their colleagues were listening to them in the car. When Rigsby and Grace are tensed around each other and need to talk it out, Jane comes as Lisbon calls him and teases her merciless. Then, when Lisbon is aggravated and walks away from her irreverent consultant, Grace joins her lover and kisses him senseless. Both couples complete each other.

Honorable Mentions: Everyone was awesome, from the cast to the wonderful writer. Director David Barrett did a remarkable job, especially with that striking shot from bellow when the killer put on bullet in Missy’s foot. And not to mention Blake Neely’s inspiring music: his melody in the kitchen at the end when Jane starts getting more personal does a lot to give its atmosphere to the scene.
Best Lines:
-« it’s nice to be needed. Anything for you, Lisbon » Jane to Lisbon. Seriously, how sweeter can the man get?
– “What she means is that ours is more of a platonic love”. Jane, to the receptionist was had mistaken him and Lisbon for a couple seeking help. Again, seriously? How much more of a tease for Lisbon (and for shippers) can the man get?
– “Yes, that is something that does exist…” Jane on the radio, when citing the California Bureau of Investigation.
– “First person to call will receive 10 000$ cash money. Yes, folks, we’re talking… Ah, I just got word from my producer that this is *not* the amount of the prize. It’s actually 20$. And the chance to guest DJ for the radio station for a day. A day of your choosing, that’s right, folks. DJ spot during drive time.” Jane asking for a witness on air. Completed with a velvety voice (‘Red Velvet’ too…) and some pretty hilarious reactions in the background, particularly the producer freaking out and frenetically taping on the glass, which of course doesn’t faze one bit Smooth Talking Jane…
– “It’s a webcast, not Steven Spielperg”, the irritated producer to Jane, upon hearing his complains about the video of the victim’s session.
– “They’re not sexy and they’re beige” blunt Cho to Rigsby who is helplessly searching for a sexy pair of golden shoes in the victim’s wardrobe.
– “It didn’t work out” Grace to Buddy, about her engagement to O’Laughlin. Understatement of the year…
– “Yes, because he was a homicidal maniac”, Rigsby to Grace, in response to the above.
– “Amazing foot. And an amazing shoe” Buddy to Grace, while massaging her foot. Creepy compliment.
– “It’s kind of an obvious thing.” Jane to Lisbon asking him how he knew about Buddy’s foot fetish.
-“I wouldn’t be asking if it was” Lisbon to the above. I love when Lisbon doesn’t like that Jane is feeling patronizing…
-“It was an unexpected act” Jane, upon realising that the real killer was threatening to shoot Buddy and Grace. Because he hadn’t planned to let his colleague be alone with a dangerous murderer in the first place, of course…
Best Scenes:
The Winner: the talk between Van Pelt and Rigbsy. Really powerful. Kinda reconciles you with on and off couples and drama…
First Runner Up: Jane trying to get Lisbon to open up about her fetish of all things. The idea is too hilarious and titillating to pass up.
Second Runner Up: Jane trying to gather witnesses by talking on the radio. I admit that scene is one of my all times favorites, it really cracked me up! The mixing between Jane’s playful fake seriousness and the producer freaking out behind his window is typically what makes Jane such a great and endearing character.

Conclusion: in the comments for the previous episode, Estatica pointed out that the book that Jane was reading in VIS#2 was “A Tale of Two Cities” by Dickens. I chose to include a part about in the review in guise of a side-note/conclusion, since it doesn’t entirely belong with the plot… Thanks to Estatica, Rose UK and Suzjazz for their precious input!

1) The book storyline takes place during the troubled times of the French Revolution and we can determine a similarity with the current season in TM, since the characters met a paroxysm in the quest for RJ and in terms of personal relationships. The intervention of Kirkland, the FBI team, Lorelei as well as the ambiguous actions of Bertram create an atmosphere of general suspicion which finds some intriguing echoes in the book: “The Dover mail was in its usual genial position that the guard suspected the passengers, the passengers suspected one another and the guard, they all suspected everybody else, and the coachman was sure of nothing but the horses”… almost everyone is potentially a suspect with Jane’s list and the viewers are forced to consider how little they know about the show characters: “ a wonderful fact to reflect upon, that every human creature is constituted to be that profound secret and mystery to every other”, to borrow Dickens’ words…

2) Various details from the “Tale” make a curious appearance during season 5. For instance, to continue the theme of troubled times, Dickens mentions to two personifications: the “Woodman” (who is Fate) and the “Farmer” (an image of Death)… death and farm, that reminds of ‘The Red Barn’ where RJ made his debuts… Another detail is that a major part of the storyline of the English book takes place in France; Jane is known to fancy French expressions, but recently he has used two which weren’t part of his repertory so far: “bon voyage” in ‘Red Lacquer Nail Polish’ (an episode which included various references to this country, from the Impressionist art gallery to the mention of Monaco), and “bon point” to Buddy Hennings in ‘Red Velvet Cupcakes’ where the book is seen.

In the previous episode, Jane had a toothpick in his mouth and used it to set a trap for Kirkland’s men; Mme Defarge, the antagonist, who was seeking revenge for the death of her family, was using a toothpick for her very first appearance in the book.
Same with a detail concerning Lisbon: her fainting in ‘Red in Teeth and Claws’ in front of flesh-eating bugs is reminiscent of Lucie Manette fainting during the trial of Charles Darnay (whom she would marry afterwards), while the audience at the Old Bailey made sounds which made the author compare them to flies.
On the other hand, Dr Manette, who had been put in jail for many years because he had refused to caution the rape and murder of a young girl, suffered from PTS disorder and freaked out when he wasn’t locked up in the garret where he spent his days afterwards… like Jane took recently the habit to lock himself in his dusty attic with a padlock (we can see that he has to remove the padlock in order to exit the attic in VIS#2)… Manette’s making shoes obsessively; we saw Jane pretty upset about losing temporarily his old brown shoes and visited a cobbler who was pretty distraught by the bank robbery in the neighborhood (there was also a bank which makes a brief appearance in the book). And of course, the love doctor in here is obsessed with shoes.

3) That’s why similar plots are discernible too. About the Dr Manette, for example, Rose UK pointed out there was elements of comparison. At the beginning of the book, Lucie meets her damaged long lost father: her words when learning that he’s alive are “I’m going to see his ghost! It will be his ghost… not him!” and, when they meet, the old man progressively recognize his now grown up daughter while asking her “who are you”… Those aspects (the ghost-hallucination, of the daughter this time, the increasing doubts about her identity) are present too in ‘Devil’s Cherry’ when “Charlotte” meets Jane again. Again, Miss Manette tries to bring him back from his obsession: he’s “recalled to life”, a bit like Charlotte tried to shake her father out of his obsession by opening him to the possibility of a new life. As Rose UK remarked there is a major theme common to both stories: “the idea of imprisonment, or being trapped by yourself, your past, your circumstances, your superiors or authorities, and by things beyond your control, etc. And ultimately breaking free, of course. Bringing down the old order to usher in a new one.”

Another important theme is the duality: Darnay was falsely accused of being a traitor (like Jane’s intention were suspected since the RJ investigation was handled to Darcy), by his resemblance with his darker alter ego Carton is what saved him from being sentenced to death and ultimately to being executed since Carton willingly took his place at the end of the book. Many details (like the Bloody Mary in the previous episode or both assuming the role of partner for Lisbon at some point) trace a parallel between Jane and the mysterious Kirkland. Even more since both men have showed an interest in Lisbon (albeit the latter certainly had an hidden intention) like Darnay and Carton were both in love with Lucie. That might open many possibilities, like Estatica pointed out: « I’m tempted to think Jane and Kirkland share many similarities with Darnay and Carton. Is this a way of the writers letting us know that Kirkland may end sacrificing himself to that Jane has a chance to rebuild a new life? Or that Jane will end up sacrificing himself for Lisbon and the team?”
The different themes concerning family matters are also evoked: we have instances in the book of tragedy-causing/murderous families, whom many examples have been shown in recent episodes. Darnay’s father raped a girl and covered up her death by destroying her family, thus imprisoning Dr Manette who was a troublesome witness… years later, that revelation causes the innocent Darnay (who has become the doctor’s beloved son-in-law) to be trialed and sentenced to death.
Darnay is then also an example of a man who has rejected his cold blood-related family to the point of changing his name in order to find solace in a new chosen family, the Manettes. Same with Carton, who is a close family friend. That’s an important theme in the show.
We also have examples of estranged/ long lost family members: Dr Manette and Lucie bonded after not seeing the other for many years, like many characters did in TM (that mother and her daughter in ‘Behind the Red Curtain’) and that ended up in tragedy. The theme is also laced with revenge both for Manette and Madame Defarge, whose family was destroyed by Darnay’s father and who was seeking revenge on him and his family. Both characters show the two possible endings offered to Jane so far: to become a monster by killing the man who murdered his loved ones, at the risk of losing his own life in the process (like Madame Defarge), or as Estatica put it “to forgive” “and find happiness”.
And, of course, last but not least redemption is a major aspect of both stories: Carton redeems himself by sacrificing his life and that’s what Jane has been seeking all along.
On a side note, it is probably nothing more than an amusing detail for classic murder mysteries lovers but Madame Defarge has been alluded to in one of Agatha Christie’s book (“They came to Bahgdad”). Since two other literary works, Blake’s poems and Macbeth were quoted directly in the show and also featured prominently in her books, respectively in “Endless Night” and in “The Pale Horse”, we can guess TM writers share the same tastes in books than The Queen of Crime…😉

Image by Chizuruchibi. Copyright Reviewbrain, April, 2013. Not to be used without permission.

Image by Chizuruchibi. Copyright Reviewbrain, April, 2013. Not to be used without permission.

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136 responses to “The Mentalist Red Velvet Cupcakes Review

  • Ifrah

    Thank you for yet another amazing review, as everything in this review explains my thoughts. This episode was truly one to highlight the love lives of most of the team, other than Cho. Jane and Lisbon have a Holmes-Watson relationship as you mentioned in the review, but a more of a platonic one in my opinion. All the lines were perfectly written for this episode, and I don’t think there’s anything particular that I could point out (other than Rigspelt on the Radio, and Jisbon in the attic and the radio station.) I look forward to other responses, as the discussion for Red Letter Day was extremely thought-provoking. A brilliant effort of the TM writers as well as you, I wouldn’t change a thing.

  • III Frogs

    Your review is so chock full as usual that my head is still spinning. So I’ll just throw a pebble in. I really loved the attic scene with Jane and Lisbon. It’s such a pure little interchange. If you look closely you can see Lisbon wink her left eye after Jane says it’s nice to be needed. It’s quite possible it was one of those involuntary things. But it’s there and they didn’t edit it out. It left me a little unprepared for the turbulence between them later. Of course it had to happen, I guess. *sigh* The discussion here on the Red Letter Day episode about the Jane-Lisbon dynamic is completely pertinent to what went on between them here in Cupcakes.

  • C Hill

    “Right from the start, the plot seems centred on relationships. The red gerberas daisies -that are showed on the kitchen counter with insistence- confirm that impression. The red flowers link the scene to the general RJ arc; the daisies are also flowers generally connected to love. Plucking a daisy is indeed a well-known game to know if someone loves you or not and, amusingly, it matches the one Wayne will be later playing with Grace…”

    daisies yes. perhaps they are “Coreopsis rosea ‘Mercury Rising'” instead?

    rich, rich, rich episode i think. much covered brilliantly here by violet, but i have a few things to add. later, though, after i get over my george jones bender tonight😦

  • C Hill

    oh just as another throwaway that entire initial kitchen scene, unlike the bedroom and other initial scenes, was *loaded* with red, including the flowers. and the “put the cupcake back” — well played indeed.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Yes! At last! Thank you, Violet. Perfect. I felt the same way I did when I watched the episode on Monday before leaving to work :with a warm heart. I realy loved this episode, my favorite in this season along with Devil’s Cherry. Especialy the flipping Jane’s switch: endearing Lisbon’s voice ” Jane, I need you” ; his immediate answer( he got up) ; his sweetest “It’s nice to be needed.” and “Anything for you, Lisbon.” and cherry’s cake Lisbon expressions. Guys, that was pure flirting. He also spoke in platonic love. Like you guys love good books I love lovely songs’ lyrics. So I searched Songs aboult platonic love and I rescued this brasilian music’s classic by eternal poet Cazuza, Bebel Gilberto e De. This lyric is simply sweet, warm. It ‘s called “Preciso dizer que Eu Te Amo”(I Need To Say I Love You). I hope you like:

    Quando a gente conversa
    Contando casos besteiras
    Tanta coisa em comum
    Deixando escapar segredos

    E eu nem sei em que hora dizer
    Me da um medo ( que medo )

    É que eu preciso dizer que eu te amo
    Te ganhar ou perder sem engano
    É eu preciso dizer que eu te amo
    Tanto

    E até o tempo passa arrastado
    Só pra eu ficar do teu lado
    você me chora dores de outro amor
    Se abre e acaba comigo
    e nessa novela eu não quero ser teu amigo

    Eu já nem sei se eu tô misturando
    Ah, eu perco o sono
    Lembrando cada riso teu qualquer bandeira
    Fechando e abrindo a geladeira a noite inteira

    Translation:

    When we talk
    Counting cases bullshit
    So much in common
    Letting slip secrets

    And I do not know at what time say
    Give me a fear (that fear)

    It’s that I need to say I love you
    Win you or lose without deceit
    It’s that I need to say that I love you
    so much

    And by the time passes dragged
    Only for me to stay on your side
    you cry pain of another love
    Open yourself and ends with me
    and on this novel I don’t want to be your friend

    I do not even know if I’m mixing
    Ah, I lose sleep
    Remembering your every laugh any flag
    Closing and opening the fridge all night

  • Carla Oliveira

    I’m awaiting moderation… Why?

  • suzjazz

    Newsflash, Lisbon: A gentle approach works best with Jane, and will get him to appreciate you more. I found it quite significant that instead of barking orders at Jane or whining “Pleeeese, Jane?” she says
    “I need you.” Not “I need your help” but “I need you.” A world of difference. And his sweet and charming response, “It’s nice to be needed. Anything for you, Lisbon.” It’s as though he’s been waiting for years for her to say that.

    The reference to platonic love does not say to me that they will never be lovers. In plot terms, it was yet another way for Jane to needle Lisbon. But the deeper meaning reflects the fact that their love remains platonic, not because they want it to, but because

    1) Jane is afraid of making Lisbon a target for RJ (even though he already knows) I have no doubt that if there were no Red John he would have made a pass at her by now. In the dating service episode with Erica, we see Lisbon watching his video in which he says the woman he is looking for would be “someone I can trust… better than I am…she has seen me at my worst and loves me anyway.” Of course this describes Angela, but it also perfectly describes Lisbon, whose face is in rapt attention as she hopes and wonders if he is talking about her. (It’s hard not to feel a little heartbroken for Lisbon. If they don’t get together as a couple at the end, her heart will be broken. She won’t show it, but the team will know.)

    2) Lisbon is afraid of getting too close to him, period. She *is* a prim Catholic schoolgirl, easily embarrassed by references to things of a sexual nature. I was fascinated that she allowed herself to be drawn into a conversation about fetishes with Jane. Only until she got so uncomfortable that she couldn’t stand it, and then she used her “innappropriate” excuse which she always uses when something makes her uncomfortable. Reviewbrain’s comment about Mashburn and his turtleneck and its implications was quite interesting, yet as far as we know he and Lisbon had only a one night stand which she has no desire to repeat. If she were that turned on by Mashburn, wouldn’t she continue to see him? With Bosco, my understanding was that he was in love with her, but the feelings were not mutual. She cared about him as a friend and admired him as a cop, but that was it. I never detected the slightest evidence that Lisbon loved either Bosco or Mashburn, and when she runs into her old flame who is initially suspected of murder, she feels guilty for having broken his heart..

    I get the feeling that Lisbon has never been in love, until Jane. It terrifies her. Intimacy means revealing things about yourself, and Lisbon knows she can’t fend Jane off for very long when he is intent on getting info about either her taste in radio shows or what turns her on. However, a significant part of her wants to share, loosen up, go crazy and live a little, be adventurous. She just doesn’t know how, and Jane acts it out it for her, hoping to get her to have fun with him.

    This episode was so sweet! I loved Rigsby and Van Pelt getting back together and that you don’t know if it will happen until we see her going up his steps wearing sexy shoes! I could write another way too long comment about them, but it’s 2 am and I have to catch a train for NYC tomorrow! 🙂

  • reviewbrain

    Yes, he *has* been waiting years to hear it. So have I. The reason Lisbon never used the approach before is because she didn’t know (didn’t want to acknowledge) the emotional leverage she has over Jane. It was the same with Bosco. She wouldn’t ask him on a personal basis to free Jane when he arrested him in season two; it’s unprofessional. She instead referred to something she covered up for him in the past. Her telling Jane she needs him is HUGE acknowledgement of trust. Shippers rejoice!

    Note: I didn’t write the review, I haven’t even watched the episode yet since i was traveling. Violet did this amazing job (see genius literary references)😉

  • valentinasweet

    jisbon as a shipper, I found the episode very cute and full of jisbon’s moment, the thing that initially struck me was the phrase by jane on the weak point of lisbon “the turtlesnecks” there I came immediately to mind Mashburn, at the end he was the only one lisbon had a brief and intimate relationship, at least that we’ve seen;) and Mashburn was the one who wore the turtlesnecks (that I can remember) another coincidence? I do not think, and you?
    what it meant to the final sentence of jane and turtlesnecks is “?

    the opening scene of jane attic was great, he initially refuses to open the door to lisbon letting her know that he has no intention of moving from there, but when lisbon says the magic words “I need you” jane stop what he was doing (reading the book) looks at the ceiling and rushes from lisbon (I loved his facial expression), and as if by hearing those words, if something clicked inside him, we discovered the weak point of lisbon but it seems to me that we have also discovered the weak point of patrick (I need you) by lisbon ….
    the expression of the lisbon “anything for you” was as flattered and gratified….
    they are trying to lay the foundations for the season finale? I do not know, but I still enjoyed the episode, after so long, finally an episode jisbon.
    Jane seemed more “direct” in this episode….”the platonic love” (i hope the remain that still for short😉 )”anything for you lisbon” the questions about turtlesnecks,was so insistent….so personal question….i liked that jane….more and more decisive and direct with her🙂
    sorry for my bad english….

  • OldMan

    Good morning, Violet.

    The scene with Rigsby and VP on the couch resonates with me. Her decision to go to him is wrong. His decision to have her is wrong. I have been in the position of someone at work loving a co-worker. It does not “work”. Everyone is uncomfortable, while the relationship is alive, he is always late. When the relationship dies, it often results in a fight. I am a believer in the do-not-date-someone-you-work-with policy.

    Someone I work with now is in a similar situation. They broke up. She was unfaithful. I could care less. All he can think about is her, which means I have to do his job too, on top of my own. Well, he is young, and I am the Old Man, He wanders around pretending to be busy… Pity him, if you must (male hormones, and all that, I still have to do his work…)

    I am sure Cho agrees with me.

  • estatica

    Oh, wow. Could this blog get any better? When Jane mentioned we all have secret pleasures, I immediately thought of my own: reading violet and reviewbrain’s TM reviews, as well as catching up with everyone’s comments.

    I thought this episode was perfectly entwined with everything that has happened in previous episodes, as violet mentioned. I would also add that when Rebecca Perry Cutter offered us 5×12 “Days of Wine and Roses”, it was mentioned how people trying to kick off an addiction tended to act out sexually. Is this what is happening to Jane? The moment he puts his obsession aside (even if momentarily), he automatically engages Lisbon in a sex talk. Well, maybe not automatically, since the whole case “reeks of sex”, much like the rehab clinic in 5×12, and Lisbon obviously needed to talk too.

    Another thing I found particularly interesting was Jane’s description of the couple’s dynamic in the beginning of the episode, which I also believe we could compare to Lisbon and Jane’s:

    – “This is not a happy marriage”, he says, “Kip’s portly, but fights it; Missy is naturally thin and a gourmet baker.” I think sometimes we see how Jane’s internal struggle in wanting to rise above his deceitful nature and keeping his lies to a minimum contrasts with Lisbon’s natural goodness and straightforwardness. He always needs to work on being a better man; Lisbon, on the other hand, is already a good woman without even trying.

    – He then adds: “He views her hobby as a sabotage and resents it; she views his dieting as a lack of interest in her personal outlet.” Again, we could draw a parallel:

    1 – Lisbon’s devotion to her work and tendency for abiding the rules could be seen as a sabotage of Jane’s mission to hunt Red John and kill him. In 5×18, Lisbon tells him to visit Lennon “on his own time” and she often drags him out of his attic to work on other cases instead of Red John.

    2- Jane’s “dieting” could be perceived as a lack of interest in Lisbon. By distancing himself from her and not acting on his feelings, Jane’s emotional starving could be hurting Lisbon and telling her he isn’t all that much into her.

    Again, so many things have already been said (and so eloquently!), I really can’t find much else to contribute with. (Plus, I’m still trying to put my ego in check. It inflated so much while reading violet’s review, I’ll now just have to wait until it pops.)

  • Carla Oliveira

    Have a nice travel, suzjazz.

  • Valentinasweet

    Why my comment are always canceled? I have not said nothing of wrong in my comment :s i least i think……

  • Carla Oliveira

    kkk. You really spoke equal to Cho. So bitter. Great. I laughed nonstop. kkk

  • phoenixx

    Thank you Violet for another awesome review!
    And reviewbrain hope you had fun traveling.🙂

    Well don’t have to say my fave scene was the attic scene with Jane/Lisbon, for obvious reasons.😉 Don’t care much about Rigsby and VanPelt but the way they handled the whole thing was really good. It’s nice to see, VanPelt came a long way from the Pilot to now. She really matured.

    Now, Lisbon’s reaction to Jane’s questioning and the whole sexual loaded conversations made me think about “Red, White and Blue” in which Pete (the soldier with the memory loss) told them that he thought after the time they’d spent together there could be something more bewteen him and Lucy (named like the female character in the book and also seemingly sharing some character qualties with her, just like Lisbon) but he thought she was rather ’embarrassed’ by the whole thing. If Violet is onto something and Jane was really trying to push his and Lisbon’s relationship a tad forward, then in this episode he was acting like Pete and Lisbon’s reaction to everything can be described as “embarrassed”, so we would have another link to a different episode. They’ve been doing that quite often this season in particular.

    Also I thought the “platonic love” scene was interesting, i’ve been rewatching it and only saw the second time around that when the woman mentiones “couple intake” and Jane realizes she thinks they’re couple he looks at Lisbon immediately to see what her reaction is, he could as well tease her right away, it wouldn’t have been the first time he pretended they were a couple but he seems to be interested in what Lisbon will say and when she dismisses the thought of them being a couple as it would be ridiculous, Jane seems eager to make it clear that they’re not just co-workers but that there is actually some kind of love between them.

    The thing that got me a bit was the whole “prude” thing, honestly i don’t see Lisbon as a prude (despite catholic upbringing). Remembering the “monring after” scene with Mashburn she seemed very confident, not only was she the one to leave but also went straight back to professional mode when she got the call. She seemed almost experienced with one-night-stands, on could argue you don’t have to be a temptress or anything like that to have one-night-stands but given Lisbon’s usual behaviour you would think she would be a tad more “shy” about something like that, that’s why personally i don’t see her being a prude.
    I rather think her awkward behaviour in this episode had more to do with the fact it was Jane she talked to, i somehow believe she wouldn’t have been so awkward around someone else. It’s always more weird if you talk to someone about stuff like that you know very well let alone have feelings for, so as open she was to talk to Jane at the end, when he brought up the turtleneck (Mashburn), she shut the door again.

    BTW am i the only one thinking it’s interesting that Jane thought it was important to store details about Mashburn’s clothing choices and the fact Lisbon slept with him into his memory palace, i mean it’s been almost three years and she’s never seen him again, apparently it did nag him a bit. I doubt he still knows the fave choice of clothing of the other guy Lisbon had been dating.

  • All-I-need

    Let me start by saying that if the writers/producers of The Mentalist were reading this blog, they would weep with joy because obviously there are people out there who seem to get each and every allusion, no matter how hidden it is.

    I never even realized the possible comparison between Missy and Kip’s relationship problems and their behavior on the show and how Jane and Lisbon’s relationship is (more or less) developing. But it’s absolutely there, now that someone pointed it out to me. Thank you for that!

    I agree with phoenixx that it’s very interesting that Jane stored information on what Mashburn was wearing. Clearly the guy (and Lisbon’s interest in him) left quite the impression with Jane. And if our favorite consultant shows up wearing a turtleneck some time in the future, I will faint and be a very happy shipper.

    Also, I loved the receptionist’s expression when Lisbon claimed she and Jane were not a couple. The woman’s look clearly said: “Who are you trying to kid, lady?!” And I have to agree with her. Platonic or not, that is SO a relationship. Of course Jane and Lisbon would be the ones to end up in a relationship together without either of them knowing about it. Argh!

    Rigsby and Grace had absolutely awesome scenes and I love that they are back together now. Of course, now the writers are presented with a new challenge: where to take their bad guys from. Obviously VanPelt’s numerous insane boyfriends are no longer an option now. Too bad….

    Thank you, violet, for this amazing review, the incredible references to literature (is there anything you haven’t read?) and for noticing and mentioning all these little parallels to other books/movies/etc. that make The Mentalist one of my favorite shows. You did a great job, as always!

  • All-I-need

    Oh, and I forgot to mention: Lisbon having a fetish for turtlenecks? Come on! How anyone can look at Jane and not develop a hair fetish is completely beyond my understanding.

  • III Frogs

    Finally, on Bosco’s deathbed when he tells Lisbon, I’ll just say it, I love you and then repeats it, Lisbon says I know, Me too. She acknowledges for the first and only time that she loved Bosco. She would never have entered a relationship with him as a married man. So she has real experience in platonic love. How painful for her to be doing it again with Patrick Jane!

  • III Frogs

    I, too, thought the platonic love comment was very interesting– and revealing. Lisbon says, We’re not a couple, please. She is deriding the idea as not serious, not even possible. Jane immediately contradicts her. It’s almost as if her comment hurts him a little. More than that, it’s untrue and he can’t let it stand. He says, OURS is more of a Platonic love. He’s talking about OUR LOVE. He describes it as MORE Platonic, meaning not totally Platonic but most likely Platonic for now. By the way, contrary to common thought, Platonic love does not mean no sexual interest. Far from it. It implies an even intense sexual interest but one that the couple foregoes and does not consummate for higher reasons. Like Bosco and Lisbon. In the absence of sexual interest, a relationship is called a friendship, not Platonic love. When I first heard Jane’s comment in a promo for the episode, I was so downcast. But seeing it in its context was a real game-changer. There is love, at least on Jane’s part. He basically just declared it. And to Lisbon. It’s to remain more Platonic for now. But Jane is sparked. So much so that, at the end of a rather sex-soaked day, he initiates sex talk with Lisbon at the end of of it. How that went is an entire discussion in itself!

  • Carla Oliveira

    I do agree!

  • Carla Oliveira

    She is in denying.

  • III Frogs

    Yes she is, I agree. Especially in professional situations. And especially after she tries to open up to him about sexual matters at his invitation and he responds with merciless teasing that goes right to the bone– Mashburn’s turtlenecks! But I mean really, just Jane initiating that invitation to discuss sex– whoa. Isn’t that the most usual male gambit to let a lady know he’s thinking about it, and with her? Lisbon raised three boys (her brothers). She has to know their every move! If she stops to think about it.🙂

  • Suzanne Davis

    Thank you Carla! I am looking forward to reading your comments on the train.🙂

  • III Frogs

    Haha! Even guys have a fetish for his hair, eh?

  • Suzanne Davis

    Not bad English at all! I am so jisbon-more than ever- and I will be furious if the writers are still just teasing us with this very important breakthrough: Lisbon admitting she needs Jane and Jane responding by dropping everything and rushing to her🙂 I hope that the writers are not saying, We gave you Van Pelt and Rigsby, so we are not giving you Jisbon.

  • Carla Oliveira

    I can’t wait for Chixuruchibi’s art. Hopefully it’ll be fully Jisbon.

  • Suzanne Davis

    Right on III frogs! I agree with every word you said!

  • Suzanne Davis

    Yes, denial. That’s Lisbon.

  • C Hill

    i can’t believe so many here are so shallow with their leather jacket fetishes, er, i mean talk about Jane’s hair…😉

    some deft work around the turtlenecks indeed. i immediately went to mashburn as did everyone else it seems!

    also, harking back to one of my favorite lines in the series (from “Fugue”), Van Pelt is back to being Luscious — whoa. and, OldMan, while I agree that Cho would not be for Rigsby/Van Pelt as a couple as co-workers, he might well be for them together in other circumstances.

    Cho’s “the heart wants what the heart wants” could be for Buddy’s foot fetish (Amanda’s scene here was, well, nevermind…), Rigsby and Van Pelt, or Jane and Lisbon.

    outside of a couple of moments, i’ve really enjoyed the season 5 writing — this episode did not disappoint.

  • T

    I wanted to add that Lisbon is aware that Jane will do for her if she asks nicely. In the season 3 opener she tells Hightower that she can get Jane to work a case he doesn’t want to but it’s a little unethical. She then goes up to his attic and asks him for a favor and he agrees, even tho he knows she’s pulling a fast one. And Jane knows the same, when he asks Lisbon for help in Cheap Burgundy, she drops comes running.

  • alltagsdiamant

    Beautiful poem! Fits Jane and Lisbon to a “t” IMHO.

  • zee

    Lovely episode, lovelier review! This week’s show wasn’t an overkill on those “TV’s relationships” episodes. In a short hour, love was shown to have many adverse impact on human nature…

    I’m not usually a romance buff, but Van Pelt and Rigsby radio scene was that cream on the velvet cupcakes. His confession at the end about his feelings the very first time he saw her was just pure earnest! Plus Yeoman’s expression…. Yes, that deserves Van Pelt at your doorstep.

    Did Jane guessed the wrong murderer? All along it seems Jane was suspecting Buddy Hennings, not his Elizabeth. I thought Jane said “Uhh, wasn’t expecting that!” when they heard someone else barging in with a gun. So far, you could count on one hand for the number of times Jane has been wrong…did platonic love blind him on this one?

    Violet, you have astounding cross references. Those are mad skills that makes fantabulous reviews.

  • III Frogs

    Please excuse the length of this post. Red Velvet Cupcakes was so full of relationship movement, especially Lisbon and Jane as I see it. I’ve tried to distill it in my mind, so I’m sharing it here.

    While the case of the week was fun and interesting in its own right, it really became the brilliant writer’s plot device to explore the status of Jane and Lisbon’s relationship, especially the possibilities of it becoming physical.

    The charged sexual situations of the RVC day:

    1. Lisbon to Jane: I need you. Jane to Lisbon: Anything for you.

    2. Lisbon reveals that she listens to the Love Doctor sometimes. This may be Jane’s first real inkling that Lisbon has a CURRENT and ACTIVE interest in healthy romance.

    3. Lisbon rejects the idea that she and Jane are a couple. This does not jive with Jane’s assessment at all. Since he has to be the known smartest in the room, he contradicts Lisbon and basically states that they do have love, more (but not exactly, maybe right now) Platonic.

    4. The case of the week turns out to be soaked in offbeat but consensual sex on two fronts. Now everybody’s libidos begin to charge. A bit horrified by the bondage situation, Lisbon calls Jane in for help. Jane appears titillated by his first view.

    5. Jane buys Van Pelt sexy shoes, something a lover would do. Lisbon wants to know where hers are. Jane says, “You wouldn’t like them,” effectively throwing her “sexless” not a couple remark back in her face. Is Jane really that stung? Lisbon doesn’t like it: frowns, turns her head from Jane, shuts up.

    6. Jane calls Lisbon a prude. Lisbon is apparently hurt by this: frowns, turns her head away from Jane and shuts up. Name-calling has a peculiar effect on people. The first reaction usually is for the victim to think, “am not.” This makes her vulnerable to somehow “proving it” later on.

    7. Van Pelt’s moans in the hallway at “spraining her ankle” sound over the radio, without other information, distinctly sexual.

    Jane wants to explore sex with Lisbon, initiates sex talk with her! His first and common male gambit is to bring up the topic in a seemingly banal way to the lady he is considering. He broaches this by creating a “teaching moment,” and inviting her to ask him for information. Lisbon actually steps into the opening, agreeing to talk with him about it! His gambit has worked and he pushes further to find out what turns her on, telling her she shouldn’t deny herself. This is completely untrod territory. I can’t believe my eyes and ears. Is Jane actually trying to spark Lisbon? I think he is, having been as affected as anyone by their sexually charged day.

    Maybe being called a prude earlier made her brave her natural reticence. Maybe Jane didn’t expect this. Maybe he panicked. Maybe he wanted to show her up about their Platonic love. Maybe he wanted to show her that just like she was jealous and stung about Lorelei, he was jealous and stung about Mashburn—from three years ago, and apparently is still on some level!

    I know she’s tough and can handle all his BS, but she has tender parts, too. His relentless teasing about all sorts of things is fun and funny. But this is a place Jane should want to access if he really wants to know her and believes they have “our love.” He just had to sabotage it, for whatever reason, by saying what flips her switch is (Mashburn) turtlenecks. Lisbon frowns, glares at him, says it’s inappropriate and leaves the room. I’d like to kick Patrick Jane’s round little butt!

  • rita

    I have been waiting with baited breath for your review of this episode, and you haven’t disappointed me…thank you.

    I loved this one……who wouldn’t?? the attic scene, well written and played to perfection by Simon Baker and Robin Tunney…I agree with T, if either Jane or Lisbon ask for help in that way…personally…it is always given…they really do watch each others backs.

    I had to laugh out loud when Jane called Rigsby out on stealing the cupcake….he knows him so well.

    When I saw the promos that showed Rigsby and Van Pelt having ‘couples councilling’ my heart dropped a foot…(sorry unintended pun!!) I got a bit tired of their longing glances and hurt looks, but this was really well written, and felt very real. I loved how Rigsby went from following ‘the script’ agreed upon before they went into the radio station, and got down to telling his real feelings….I think that Van Pelt is right, she HAS grown up…I’m not so sure of Rigsby though, he still seems much less mature than she does.

    Jane and Lisbon are just SO much a couple….sort of more than friends less than lovers……others can see more than they can themselves. I am enjoying how the show is showing the relationship develop.

    I really enjoy reading all the comments on this site, it is surprisingly deep and makes me think much more carefully about things and stop just seeing things at face value…Hey we may allbe very wrong about what the writers are trying to portray, but it is fun!!

    Looking forward to seeing Chibi’s art work, and again, a great review, thank you.

  • P

    I think I am the outlier here. I just didn’t see all the Jisbony goodness that the rest of you did. Personally, if a man I had feeling for would use the word platonic to describe us in any context, I would view that as a signal of no sexual interest. Saying “platonic love” to me means that he views them as very close…best friends but not potential lovers. Sorry, that’s just my take.

    Also, I don’t take him initiating the fetish discussion as necessarily indicative of him being interested romantically. He LOVES to embarrass her. He also has tried to embarrass Van Pelt in similar situations. He loved pretending to be Van Pelt’s lover in that episode with the artist. He routinely pokes his nose into other people’s romantic business..that is just Jane. How could he pass that opportunity up?

    Finally, the attic scene. Frankly, if he wanted to express love, the best way to do it would be to actually be helpful to her without forcing her to plead. He was just reading a novel at the time…he wasn’t even looking at his RJ board or his handshake list. Would it really kill him to just do his job and come when asked without her making a personal plea? Usually when men are interested in a woman, they go out of their way to be helpful. He certainly did with Lorelei.

    Based on what I’ve seen this season, I don’t believe Jane is in love with Lisbon. If he is later proven to be, I will freely admit I was wrong (I have been wrong about other things!!!). But I just don’t like the majority of his behavior towards her this season and don’t believe it fits with a man in love.

  • estatica

    I’d agree with you if I compared Jane’s behavior to one of a real person. But he’s not a real person, he’s this really ambiguous fictional character.

    He’s a guy who is hunting a serial killer for almost 10 years, remained celibate until he slept with the mistress of said serial killer. He’s a flirty guy who blushes when he gets hit on. The man is just full of contradictions (and yet they all make sense), so I can’t really judge his actions by comparing him to a normal guy. Or any guy, for that matter.

    In fact, if these characters were actually real people, they’d all have been fired and Jane would have certainly been locked up in a mental hospital.

    So in the light of everything that’s been written so far, I honestly think Jane is in love with Lisbon. I’d even say he has been in love for a really long time, as opposed to Lisbon, who’s only started to realize her feelings for him more recently.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Thank you , I loved this too much.

  • C Hill

    “In fact, if these characters were actually real people, they’d all have been fired and Jane would have certainly been locked up in a mental hospital.”

    Heh. Well, even the fictional Jane was locked up, but you make a good point🙂

    “So in the light of everything that’s been written so far, I honestly think Jane is in love with Lisbon. I’d even say he has been in love for a really long time, as opposed to Lisbon, who’s only started to realize her feelings for him more recently.”

    I can agree with this analysis. I think a lot of this was set up with epi 100. Usually it’s a guy that’s the White Knight — in this case it’s Lisbon.

  • P

    Estatica, for the record, I hope I am wrong and you are right. Being wrong would make me very happy in this case. I just want Lisbon to have a happy ending…at this point, I don’t care who it is with. I just want her to be treated like the wonderful person she is, and the way I see it, Jane is not doing that.

  • III Frogs

    My comment has been awaiting moderation for about 3 hours now. Is that normal? It’s pertinent to the discussion that’s taking place right now!

  • P

    I agree with you that Lisbon did love Bosco. I think if he wasn’t married, they would have been together. In fact, I believe at some point they did have an affair. I think she would have felt terribly guilty about that, but the heart wants what the heart wants. It could be part of the reason she left San Francisco and took the CBI job. When Terry Kinney joined the cast as Bosco, all of the surrounding spoilers said he was Lisbon’s ex. and that they had been lovers.

    Michael Ausiello from EW wrote this at the time:
    ” Former Oz actor Terry Kinney is joining The Mentalist as an ex of Lisbon’s (Robin Tunney) and a major player in the Red John investigation, sources confirm to me semi-exclusively.
    Kinney, who most recently starred in ABC’s short-lived cop dramedy The Unusuals, will play the recurring role of Sam Bosco, a by-the-book California Bureau of Investigations agent who heads up the division overseeing the Red John case. Bosco served as Lisbon’s mentor as she was coming up through the ranks, during which they shtupped once or twice (or a lot). Further complicating matters: The two share a deep, dark secret!”

  • All-I-need

    Oh my god, now I’m ENVIOUS! Touching his hair is actually on my Bucket List and those guys are right there, doing that and now I want to cry. Can someone stop the fangirling, please?!

  • III Frogs

    Interesting. Of course the show never says one way or the other, as is its habit. I never noticed anything in their behavior that led me to believe that Bosco and Lisbon had a sexual relationship. The love on Bosco’s part was obvious, not really at all on Lisbon and she only admitted love for him on his death bed, and even then only when he pressed her a second time to acknowledge what he was saying, and even then not I love you, but Me, too. What kind of sexual relationship leads to such behavior at one partner’s death bed? Makes me wonder where the EW guy got his information. I’m sure he has better sources than me. I have only my eyes, ears and little gray cells. Perhaps it’s like many things in TM World. Even official information given out from the show’s creators don’t pan out in the actual episodes. Or, horrors, maybe I’m wrong!🙂

  • P

    I see it differently. I don’t consider Lisbon a prim Catholic schoolgirl at all. With friends of either sex out in a social situation after a couple of cocktails, many people are more than happy to discuss sexual topics in detail. Most of those same people (at least the ones who take their professional reputations seriously) won’t go there at all with a coworker at the office in a public break room where anybody can overhear. Especially if that coworker is of the opposite sex. That’s just being professional. Let them have the same conversation out in a bar over a few drinks, and I suspect it goes very differently😉

    Regardless of how you interpret that scene, the main reason I don’t think she is a prude is that she seemed VERY comfortable the morning after with Mashburn. She was perfectly comfortable dressing in front of him and joking around before she left. She didn’t sneak out in the middle of the night in shame. I think our Lisbon is just the kind of person who wants to keep her personal life out of the office as much as possible. Granted, she has loosened up and is more friendly with the team than in season one, but I can understand why she isn’t dishing intimate details of her sex life to them.

  • P

    That’s certainly possible. They could have misled the media, or just changed their mind about that story. It just seems they included some of the other details of the Bosco arc (like the dark secret with Lisbon) so it seemed like it was all well thought out at that point. But I guess we’ll never know for sure.

    She could have been reluctant to say it out because of lingering guilt. Or just because it was too painful to say it out loud and admit it to herself with him about to die. Or maybe the writers just want to keep us guessing🙂

  • Carla Oliveira

    I saw the same you did.

  • P

    The time I thought her feelings were obvious was that scene at the end of Red Badge when Bosco hints that if it had been Lisbon, he would have covered it up…he wouldn’t let her go to prison. They have some very heavy eye contact and seem very flirtatious (that is too light a word for the emotions in that scene, but I can’t think of a better word off hand). It was very intense, and the emotions seem very deep on both sides to me. Of course, maybe I was reading into it.

  • suzjazz

    I thought that the dark secret had something to do with Lisbon helping Bosco cover up something he had done that was illegal (like killing someone) It’s hinted at, but never expressly stated. If they ever did have an affair, it’s clear that it was way in the past and is over. There isn’t any chemistry between them that I can discern–only platonic love. He, of course, is in love with her until he dies, and this is the source of his animus against Jane–jealousy. He must have suspected that Jane had feelings for Lisbon or he would not have asked him to take care of her.

  • suzjazz

    Thank you Carla! I tried to send you a comment while i was on the train but it didn’t send. We (BF and I) are enjoying NYC and our friends, and now I am lying in bed and–what else? reading the blog!🙂

  • suzjazz

    Me too, All-I-need! Me too! Could there be any man more sexy than Simon Baker?

  • III Frogs

    Suzjazz, that was my understanding, too, something illegal as Jane guessed and Lisbon did not deny. They may have changed the story from what they originally put out to EW.

  • P

    I also believe the dark secret was Lisbon covering for Bosco. I meant that since the “dark secret” part of the spoiler turned out to be right, and since that happened towards the end of the Bosco arc, it adds credibility to the part about Lisbon and Bosco having been lovers. It seems the entire Bosco arc was well thought out in advance. I thought the two had great chemistry, and I think them having been lovers fits well with what I saw on screen. Very tragic.

  • III Frogs

    It just occurred to me that the reason for Lisbon saying We’re not a couple, please and seeming to be making a point of it could follow from her irritation at just having been teased by Jane for being a “fan” of the Love Doctor. She probably enjoyed having a chance to get back at him for it– and so soon.

  • Valentinasweet

    To tell the truth ‘P. There are times that it seems to me that jane is the one in love with lisbon and not lisbon in love with jane, is my opinion…..of cotse, but sometime seems so in my eyes😉
    Oh i have seen the new job of cjizuru-chibi….so cuteeeee *-*

  • Carla Oliveira

    That’s a song by Cazuza, Bebel Gilberto and Dé. Listen to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VudS00JZH2c

  • Carla Oliveira

    Where?

  • phoenixx

    Same here, i think it’s funny so many people say Lisbon is the one in love and not the other way round.

    I mean Jane said ‘love you’ and then claimed not to remember (which for me was the bigger indicator that he actually loves her than the actual words).
    Plus the whole ‘Devil’s cherry’ episode in which his thoughts aka his daughter clearly showed a deeper interest in Lisbon than friendship (‘does she have a Boyfriend’, ‘have you guys ever’, ‘she’s cute’) and not for the first time, it seems everytime he had no control about his mind he’s interested in Lisbon in a non-friendly way (fugue in red; you wouldn’t think you slept with someone other than when you attracted to that person, especially when you believe you could have anyone you want, which he clearly did.)

    Lisbon on the other hand hasn’t displayed anything like that. The only thing we saw so far was her almost crying in TWBB and maybe some jealousy in episoded before but if that was actual jealousy is debatable.

    So for me too it seems more like Jane being in love with her (for quite some time now) and Lisbon coming around slowly. On that i take BH statement that Lisbon is discovering feelings for him and that we as the audience see things they don’t – yet.

  • valentinasweet

    exactly i meant😉 perfect…i fully agree…..
    jane showed many times his “love” for lisbon….verbal,actions….toughts…but i don’t remember that lisbon said “i love you to jane” or has showed her love for him a part the jealousy scene…:)

  • alltagsdiamant

    I can see where you’re coming from, and I love your wish to let Lisbon be treated better.

    I’d like to add another angle to the discussion:
    Yes, Jane is a fictional character, so we can’t ask him directly (which would be a moot point of course, considering his closeup nature😉 ).

    But – being the main character of a TV series, it would be so much more interesting if he was actually in love with Lisbon. Much more possibilities to play with the audience’s expectations, adding sexual tension to the criminal one. This path has been trodden by many TV series(es? What’s the plural here, please?), and very successfully so. Keeping the audience in doubt what will happen with this pair, is part of the magic spell the producers and writer try to cast upon us. In my case, they’ve succeeded.🙂

    To put it bluntly, I am also a Jisbon shipper. I hope for a happy ending for both of them, too.❤

    Thank you for your comment!

  • III Frogs

    I agree with you on the Catholic schoolgirl thing, P. What I see is a woman who is determined to keep a professional team together, as best she can with Jane in the mix. It’s part of her code not to have personal stuff going on in the office, especially romance. Hightower already wrote her up for Rigsby and Van Pelt. She doesn’t want another blot if she can help it, especially one involving her personally. And now she’s going to have R&VP going at it again.

    I don’t see her as sexually repressed at all, for the same reasons as you, her very easy and relaxed actions with Mashburn. She gets to have preferences and limits just like anyone else. I’m sure she can be quite adventurous and inventive in the right situation with the right guy and in a way she enjoys.

  • suzjazz

    I think that the difference is, Jane is not in denial at all that he loves Lisbon, but Lisbon is in denial that she loves Jane because she didn’t want to fall for him but she did. Being a control freak (I am one myself so I understand Lisbon quite well in that regard) she thinks she can control her emotions the way she gives orders to her team. She has also been deeply hurt by him and does not want to be in love with a man who hurts her and whom she cannot trust. At the same time, she gives him a pass/forgives his most atrocious behavior, probably thinking it’s not because she loves him. If you asked her, she would probably say that she “cares deeply” for Jane, but would not use the word “love.” But there is no question that she is in love with him, in the sense that a woman loves a man, not sibling/friend love. Just my take on it.

  • suzjazz

    I hope that’s truly what the writers intend. It is quite possible that the Jane/Lisbon suspense is on a parallel arc with the Red John suspense, and they want to keep us guessing. I totally agree with every word you said about the show being MORE interesting, not less, if the love interest were developed (at least I think that’s what you meant, correct me if i am wrong.) That’s why I *so* hope that they will start developing it in the 2 episodes that are left this season and not leave it as an afterthought at the end of the series finale next season. It’s my impression that at least 3/4 of the fans want that, if the poll on this blog is any true indicator.

  • suzjazz

    Excellent points Valentina. Lisbon has not ever said “I love you” to Jane. Although when she rescued him from drowning she was on the point of tears as she tried to resuscitate him. I found this to be one of the most moving scenes in TM, and it leaves no doubt that she is in love with him, though she may not admit it to herself.

  • alltagsdiamant

    It was Jane who had called her “translucent”, no? From my POV, it’s sooo obvious that she loves him. I’m just re-watching S1, where this isn’t very much pronounced yet. But, as was mentionend above, in later seasons, there are many scenes in which Lisbon wears her heart on her sleeve. “Fugue in Red”, “The Crimson Ticket”, “There will be blood” come to mind.
    In fact, the whole S5 was packed with these allusions to Teresa’s feelings towards Jane.
    @susjazz: I love this aspect of the show, and I dearly hope for this storyline to be addressed further!🙂

  • P

    When Jane said “love you” in the season 4 finale and then pretended not to remember, I also assumed that meant he was in love with her. However, his actions this season do not seem to support that assumption. At the end of the day, I believe actions speak louder than words. If I really care about somebody, (whether a lover, close friend, family member) I do what I can to make life EASIER for them, not harder. That is what I expect in return from people close to me. Not to manipulate and lie to me for their own selfish reasons. Not to deliberately make my job harder because they can’t be bothered to willingly do their own or just because they would rather behave badly to amuse themselves without a care about how I have to clean up their mess. Not to tell me they love me, and then a few months later tell me they have feelings for another woman. Lisbon may never have said the words, but she has PROVEN how much she cares about Jane. You don’t need to be a mentalist to see how much she cares about him based on her actions.

    My opinion of Jane has changed radically over the life of the show. In the early seasons I liked him. I never loved him, like most of you do, but I thought he was a decent person with some big flaws but generally good intentions. Now, I really think he has regressed over the past 2 years and become more selfish, more bitter, more criminal, less concerned about hurting innocent people, more insecure, and with a bigger ego and need to be the center of attention and prove how smart he is. He is all style and no substance at this point, and in real life I would not want to associate with him in any capacity. I don’t care what he said last season, or what he might say in the season finale or next season. I think it is time he puts up or shuts up. If he really gives a damn about Lisbon, he should put HER first…not Red John, or Lorelei, or the memory of his dead family. He’ll never forget them, but if he is putting vengeance for them over the needs of a living breathing woman who constantly sacrifices for him, that is pretty f’d up.

  • alltagsdiamant

    Sounds a lot like a woman going back to her abusive husband? Maybe, though she tries to protect herself, fighting every step she takes towards loving him.
    I try to look at the reasons Jane may have to behave like he does. He is a jackass to her also in S5, no doubt. (Some very well done fanfic addressing this issue!) Does he do it to put a distance between them, to bring RJ off his track? Is he showing his real nature? I refuse to believe that. He’s more on edge than usual, and Lisbon takes the blow. I don’t like it, for sure, and I think that’s part of their dynamic, their tune if you will. Creates suspense (maybe there are some people watching the show only to see Lisbon kicking Jane’s a§§ for a change?), maybe.
    Just my 2c though.

  • III Frogs

    Have to admit. It’s really hard to argue against you when your present this contrasting picture of Lisbon’s vs Patrick’s behavior. Compelling. If Jane does love her, and I believe he does–desperately–he may be rocketing to his own devastation for a very hollow reward indeed by woefully misplacing his priorities as you describe. I have to hope that, if true, this will either be corrected somehow or the devastation will lead to his redemption. I believe he is really now fitting into the team, discussing his ideas with them, actually calling Cho for back up before he does something to make all hell break loose rather than after, mostly telling Lisbon at least where he is going and much more often what he is doing. These are good signs to me, and his much sunnier disposition reflects that. But they don’t begin to match the level of destructiveness he brings to any real personal relationship he might have with Lisbon right now, as I’ve described myself in a recent post here. I’m hoping for a wholesome resolution, and soon. I doubt I’ll get one soon.

  • P

    I agree…it does sound like a woman going back to an abusive husband. That’s part of my point. Him being on edge is not an excuse to abuse Lisbon. If a man is stressed at work and comes home and beats his wife, that doesn’t make it OK.

    He can create distance between them without being a jackass. Just be polite and professional. Don’t joke around with her at 2:00, say something bitchy to her at 3:00, cause a problem for her at work at 4:00, and lie to her about something huge at 5:00, and smile and joke the next morning and start the whole cycle again. He is a grown man…not a 12 year old boy. This is not cute. This is not a little boy pulling a girl’s pigtails to indicate he likes her. This is just abusive. Lisbon should not take his BS. Sometimes love is not enough. She should move on.

  • P

    I know I’m being really negative, but this season has been rough for me to watch! I hope the writers decide to take this in a different direction and redeem him. But to me at least, redeeming him in the series finale will be too late. NOW is the time to start making his actions agree with the words he said.

  • III Frogs

    I agree. Redemption in the series finale is far too late. We need to see that full process, and its resolution and aftermath.

  • Carla Oliveira

    That’s it, guys. Let’s framing Jane! kakaka!

  • valentinasweet

    I believe instead that loves jane lisbon, but has other priorities right now, he has to catch red john, must take revenge and we know this from the first season, jane can not “live” the feeling he has for lisbon in a free, because it has afraid that maybe she will come under fire from the enemy (red john).
    Jane and Lisbon are the sun and moon, day and night, black and white, jane is irreverent, sometimes selfish, self-centered but also has a big heart that has a huge wound, and in his thought, the ‘only thing that can heal that wound a little is catch red john, otherwise he can not be free to live his life “in full”, in my opinion (you can also give me the stupid) for certain points, jane has touched the bottom with lisbon, me too did not like the behavior of jane with lisbon when there was lorelei dear, I did not like the fact that he has to defend lorelei in episode 5×16 wounded lisbon, clearly affected….sad.
    wow, jane is a mentalist, is able to understand everything about everyone and does not know that lisbon has feelings for him? no, you can not, he knows what lisbon feel for him and I think this puts even more on the defensive, can not risk putting in danger, when jane jokes with lisbon, teases, it is only because it is jane , that’s how he is, and that is how they have marked their “relationship” from the beginning.
    I must admit that I too did not like the way the authors have made ​​it appear lisbon this season, as if she were a teenage girl in love with her best friend who has other things to think, I hope, will make her character differently next season…wow, jane is a mentalist, is able to understand everything about everyone and does not know that lisbon has feelings for him? no, you can not, he knows what lisbon feel for him and I think this puts even more on the defensive, can not risk putting in danger, when jane jokes with lisbon, teases, it is only because it is jane , that’s how he is, and that is how they have marked their “relationship” from the beginning.
    I must admit that I too did not like the way the authors have made ​​it appear lisbon this season, as if she were a teenage girl in love with her best friend who has other things to think, I hope, will make his character differently next season…
    and I was hoping to see a little jealous of jane lisbon, I must admit, I’d love to see the reaction of jane if there was a “rival” around the corner, i know that The Mentalist is not marked on the romantic, but I must admit, from jishon shipper that this situation could intrigue me more than the storyline of red john😉
    but I’m confident, I think Jane will surprise us and make steps towards lisbon,before lisbon will make them to him🙂
    sorry for my bad english :p

  • valentinasweet

    oh my God, to write all this I had to use a translator and I made doubly copy paste … sorry, but I had too much to say and did not know how to do :p forgive me

  • estatica

    Again, I think comparing this fictional relationship with a real one could lead us to think he’s being abusive, since those behaviors you mentioned are not tolerated in real life.

    However, following that logic, once could say Lisbon is abusive too! The woman has physically harmed him in several occasions, verbally attacked him publicly and in private, has told him several times how stupid he is in front of her superiors, etc. etc.

    Now, I’m not saying Lisbon is abusive. I’m saying that the only reason she isn’t is because she’s short and cute and a fictional character. In real life, would you tolerate a woman that punches you or kicks you just because she’s stressed? I’m not a guy, but I certainly wouldn’t.

    Having that said, I feel compelled to defend Jane’s actions in season 5:

    – Jane has never been bitchy towards Lisbon, except perhaps in 5×18. But in that episode, she was trying to convince him to drop his only RJ lead, so I can get his frustration.

    – Jane is known for lying and omitting facts since the series began, but when has he lied about really important things in season 5? He always comes clean when Lisbon asks him, which is what he did when she confronted him about having feelings for Lorelei.

    – Despite his obstinate and selfish nature, Jane has been supportive throughout this season. Whenever Lisbon asks his help, he pushes his quest aside and helps her. (the Volker case is the best example, but in this last episode this was also very clear)

    – Jane respects Lisbon too much to act on his feelings for her. If he can’t be 100% committed to her (because he still needs to catch RJ), he will rather let her think he doesn’t love her romantically and give her space so she finds happiness with someone else.

    Again, if these were real people, my opinion would be different, but it’s a TV show. I like when Jane teases Lisbon and she pouts, and I also like when she punches him. But these things would not be cute or funny in real life.

  • suzjazz

    I can’t disagree with your comments about Jane and the direction in which the writers have taken him. The quest for revenge against RJ has reached a fever pitch and has partially destroyed him as he gets ever closer. His sneering and guilt tripping at Lisbon (“when am I not on my own time?”) plus, what I view as one of his worst actions: telling Lisbon that “there were feelings” that he had for Lorelei. He could have stood his ground when she accused him of lying the first time, and said, Absolutely not! I had no feelings for the woman then and I don’t now and I wish I had not slept with her as it did not lead me to RJ as I hoped–it was a terrible thing and it really hurt you and I am so sorry! That’s what a mature man in love says. But Jane *is* a 12 year old boy. He has always had that peter pan-esque quality which makes him so appealing, and Lisbon has always had to be Wendy. A lot of times she’s like a mother scolding her son. The flip side of the charming and insouciant youthful Jane is the dark, sarcastic, selfish, cold, arrogant man he is in the first few episodes of season 5 (esp. There Will Be Blood but also after.) However I do see some hope that his good side may be predominating. He does love Lisbon; he’s just an immature man. Perhaps he will now gain some self-awareness.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Keep confident, Valentina (that’s your name?).
    I think, with base in Devil’s Cherry, he is too much tired with his search to RJ and he wishes give it up and start over in new life with Lisbon , I think, because ot things that “Charlotte” ,aka his thoughts, said. But he has no courage because of he blame it on him. He thinks he has no right starting over before catching RJ. So he is more hurried up ending this. This delay and conflict are stressing him up. That’s what I feel.

  • suzjazz

    You make a very insightful point, valentina, when you observe that Jane the great mentalist seems to be totally clueless about what Lisbon is feeling. Either that, or he knows exactly how much she is hurting and doesn’t care–which would truly make him a monster. It seems that he must be somewhere in between–if there is an in between. I was heartened by his kinder behavior to Lisbon last episode and it is possible that he is gaining some awareness about her and how he has to start treating her better or she really will move on to someone who will. I almost wish for a rival to Jane, though it seems a bit late to introduce one now. I do agree with P that he needs to prove he loves her by his actions, which so far he has not really done except when he killed the guy who would have given him RJ in a prior season to save Lisbon’s life.

  • mosquitoinuk

    I agree with you wholeheartedly; moreover, the immediate denial of Lisbon “we are not a couple” is the response anyone would try when dealing with a situation that has become a bit weird from an emotional point of view. I think we can all relate to a situation like this. Very interestingly, the fact that Jane comes to rectify the situation (and qualifies it of platonic love) is not a hint, is an affirmation. He is making sure that everybody is really clear on what’s going on. He seems to be happy enough for whatever is happening to take some time but he’s no fool and he wants to make sure things are understood. Good for you Jane!

    I think this is also the writers acknowledging that *there is* a platonic relationship between Jane and Lisbon (hence, a romantic interest). Whether we see it becoming something else is anyone’s guess but it is there now. Canon. Stay still my shipper heart!

    Since the theme of the episode was sex and relationships, I also think this is a way for the writers to acknowledge that there is a sexual interest between J&L but we also got the confirmation that Lisbon is *really* not ready to take this to the next level and she feels uncomfortable discussing sex *with Jane*. She’s trying with all her might to stay in friendship territory but we’ll have to see how much does Jane agree with her on that.

  • Carla Oliveira

    I liked, Estatica. You are right. Every time she hits or courses him, he only laughs, poor boy. I got very angry, even sad with him in 5×7 and 5×16, but because of 5×20 he is temporarily forgave. But I keeping an eye on him. He had to break the other out on prison and couldn’t tell that to Lisbon. Even he screw up the other: he make her up a kidnapper.

  • Carla Oliveira

    I see the same.

  • III Frogs

    I like your “Good for you Jane,” cheering him on :)! Jane teasing Lisbon about being a fan of the Love Doctor right before they came in, I think it made Lisbon mad and she jumped at the chance to slap Jane down that they would be a couple, pay him back for his teasing. And thereby was set up the whole revelation for us. If all that hadn’t happened, Jane would not have made his declaration there. So I say good for Lisbon too, she slapped him back and rattled his little cage, making him sing hahahaha!

  • valentinasweet

    i hope that will introduce one rival in next season (at least i hope)i also think that jane is in love with lisbon but now is impossible for him to be totally open with her because i think he knows her feeling for him and now he can’t to be ready for a love story with her,i really belive that he has feeling for her,strong feeling…..maybe he would want to show more to her but now he feels blocked….i don’t know.
    but if a part of me belive in his feeling for her…the other part of me would want to see more demonstration in practical acts this feeling that he feels….
    sometime seems that he cares to her so much….but some time seems that he doesn’t care her like a “lover”…
    i don’t know what think…..but i hope that next season all will be clear for us……..
    now i am dreaming….butis so much ask for a kiss?😀
    ahahah i know….i know……it is quite impossible now :p
    but i liked that jane that said to her “i love you” i liked the jane that said to hear “anything for you lisbon” i liked the facial expression that he took over after the “jane,i need you”
    but i didn’t like the jane that broke her heart when he has taken the lorelei’s part and i didn’t like the jane that admitted his feeling for the mistress of red john,broke lisbon’s heart….
    i am sure that jane knows her feeling for him,but i am also sure that if jane in future (next season) will not show much and better his feeling for her…..i don’t know if i’ll continue to like his character….right now i am cheering for lisbon🙂

  • C Hill

    I think some are a little tough on our protagonist and having a softer side now with the team. Indeed, in RVC, I suppose it was just convenience that he sent Van Pelt and Rigsby in on the radio show? I’m sure the significance of that pink orchid Rigsby gave Van Pelt did not cross his mind?

    Of course,one can then argue if that was a good idea or not!🙂

    Unfortunately, until RJ is gone, I don’t think Jisbon can happen. I agree with those who think that it would be very interesting to close the RJ arc and pursue the Jisbon relationship.

  • zee

    P, you have listed Jane’s buildup of jerkiness over the seasons and made me realise something. Maybe the writers have something in store to reset Jane back to his “mode” when we first met him in Red Dawn.

    I like your comments on Jerky Jane. It makes one prepared in case there’s an unfavourable ending🙂

  • phoenixx

    “- Despite his obstinate and selfish nature, Jane has been supportive throughout this season. Whenever Lisbon asks his help, he pushes his quest aside and helps her. (the Volker case is the best example, but in this last episode this was also very clear)”

    Don’t want to spoil but it’s again shown in this episode (if you watch the episodes in the right order that is, ater all Cupcakes was shot after Red&Itchy) Still don’t kow why they did that.
    The whole attic scene makes much more sense now.

    ****Spoiler****

    When Jane tells Lisbon he needs peace, no distractions and all that and we know that he actually did lock himself up and only helped over phone UNTIL Lisbon said “I need you” and bam he was up and his “needing peace” and so on flew out of the window.

  • phoenixx

    Yes, actions speak louder than words but the writers have to show the audience what the characters think and feel and Lisbon is a mother hen, “Saint Teresa”, she cares deeply about her whole team, so her actions regarding Jane during the first seasons don’t imply she loved him, I agree in season 5 she (like i said in my other comment) discovers feelings for him, why her behaviour here indicates love but she doesn’t yet acknowledge it.

    But the writers made sure we know Jane has feelings for her, again the “love you” and the episode from his “subconscious”, without those episodes i would agree with what you said, that actions speak louder and that he hasn’t shown a lot of love for her considering how he behaves but i guess that’s the point of those episodes, so we as the audience know for sure about his feelings despite his actions in the coming ones, after all they said Jane would get “darker” in this season.

    Plus the thing is for Jane his beaviour towards Lisbon makes sense, he can’t be with her so he rather pushes her away (hurts her) but at the end he always succumbs because he just can’t stay away from her. It’s a push and pull thing. Jimmy Gadd responded to a tweet asking him about the “love you” that Jane denied it because he knew it would only hurt her.
    And to push Lisbon away is probably one of the most difficult things to do because she doesn’t even give up on you if you did something horrible.

  • phoenixx

    Jane is a great manipulator and “human reader” but i think when it comes to feelings when he himself is involved he isn’t that good, mostly because he is afraid of it. That his own emotions clouding his “reading” and i think that works for his “reading Lisbon and her feelings for him”. For me it would be totally plausible that Jane only saw Lisbon has feelings for him in TWBB because frankly i think it was the first time that Lisbon realized it herself.

    And even if he said Lisbon’s translucent, she still surprises him on many occasions (hammer, listening to the love doctor). And Lisbon doesn’t show or talk about feelings, so no matter how easily to read she might be usually, feelings are a complete different can of worms. So yes i think he is/was oblivious to it.

    Also wouldn’t it be harder on everyone -when you know you can’t be with someone- to push the person away and not act on your feelings but then you realize this person reciprocates your feelings. If you knew that other person only sees you as a friend that’s one thing but if the possibility of a relationship presents itself, I personally think it’s becoming harder for Jane to stay away therefore he might act even worse.

    But i agree completely, there should be some rival coming up, they introduced Mancini (who mysteriously disappeared) and BH made it sound like he could be that but then, well the rest is history. It seems they changed a lot of plans they had for S5 reagrding Jisbon, so i don’t expect much from the finale.
    Especially because they decided to pursue RJ and that having both him and Jisbon in one episode is too much.
    But I will be more than happy if Bruno surprises us. After all the “love you” came pretty unexpected too, especially after the spoilers.

  • alltagsdiamant

    Exactly what I’m thinking.

  • suzjazz

    She’s not sexually repressed. You can be a prim Catholic schoolgirl and not be repressed at all. Outwardly, and in her reticence about anything suggestive of a private life, she is the Catholic schoolgirl–obeys the rules, is professional and discreet. Inwardly, she is seething with sexual frustration, not repression. And even in a bar, outside of work, she is horribly embarrassed by sexual topics. Remember her surprise party with the stripper? I could hardly watch the scene without wincing. The embarassment is directly connected to her anger that she doesn’t get to sleep with Jane. Obviously, she’s not a prude–she is comfortable and amused with Mashburn. Jane calls her a prude to needle her–he knows she isn’t one.

  • suzjazz

    Great comments, III Frogs. Very insightful. I’d also like to kick Jane’s butt for being such an adolescent. I’m not going to go into detail about last night’s episode because of spoilers, but I’ll just say this: we are back to dark, angry, hurtful Jane again. I’m really disappointed in his character (which is really the fault of the writers!) Why can’t he just come clean with Lisbon and say, Look, I know it hurts you that I’m pushing you away as a partner in the RJ investigation, but it’s just too dangerous and I have to protect you because you are too precious to me to risk your life in this. RJ already knows that he loves her. She doesn’t, though, and that’s just cruel. He could at least say, I am being a bastard now but I will make it up to you later. But he is an adolescent. And as a mentalist, he has amazing insight into everyone but himself and Lisbon–or, as I said in a prior post, if he *does* realize how much L is hurting, he doesn’t care, which would make him a monster. maybe the writers are leading us in that direction. I don’t believe he is RJ but he could still be turning into a man with no conscience. Which means he may have loved Lisbon when he said he did, but now he is incapable of feeling love for anyone because his entire psyche is consumed by revenge.

  • suzjazz

    Me too, valentina. I feel EXACTLY as you do.🙂

  • Carla Oliveira

    Ah, no. I get so scared!

  • III Frogs

    Someone on another board reminded me that originally Red Velvet Cupcakes was scheduled to be episode 21, leading in to the season finale. I believe the announcement of switching it to episode 20 was made sometime shortly before a 6th season was announced, if memory serves. So it was originally intended to come before RVC. Not sure why they switched the placement of the episodes. Anyway, I think RVC contributes to a terrific season wrap up, giving us plenty of Jane/Lisbon to think about.

  • Auli

    Thanks for the info III Frogs! I noticed in yesterday’s episode that Robin Tunney’s hand was not in a cast but in those few promo pictures for season final she still has it so I was bit confused about it. That info put this episode then in a whole new level! Be still my heart!

  • Carla Oliveira

    What? I could understand you. Maybe because of language. What did you mean?

  • Carla Oliveira

    Sorry,I made a mistake. Actually I couldn’t understand you. What did you mean?

  • III Frogs

    Hi Carla. Originally the announced order of the last three episodes for season 5 was Red&Itchy, then RVC, then the season finale. But they announced a change to that sometime in March I think to RVC, then Red&Itchy, then the season finale. I think the originally intended placement of RVC right before the season finale makes a big difference in the flow of the story, especially Jane and Lisbon.

  • Auli

    Robin Tunney broke her wrist so her hand was in a cast. You can see her using only her left hand in RVC and you can actually see the cast in some scenes briefly. In yesterday’s episode, red and itchy, she did not have it anymore and used both of her hands. But I had seen some promo pictures for the final episode where she had the cast still so I was bit confused that where the hell did the cast go.

    Hopefully I was a bit clearer now.🙂 English is not my first language.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Thank you, Auli. I can understand you now. English is not my first language too. I’m Brazilian.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Thank you, III Frogs. It was a language problem by me.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Why do you think was done this change?

  • III Frogs

    I’d like to know that, too, Carla. I don’t think they ever gave a reason. They changed right around the time a 6th season was announced. I don’t know if that had something to do with it. And why would a 6th season make a difference anyway? I just don’t know.

  • suzjazz

    There has to be some reason for switching the order of the episodes–as we know, no decision is random on TM. Actually, it gives me hope that the original order had Jane hinting at wanting a more than platonic relationship with Lisbon and being nicer to her. “Red and Itchy” has the return of dark mean Jane which makes no sense at all after RVC.
    So if there are hints at a deepening of J/L right before the season finale (originally) the change in the order is probably another way of exasperating us shippers. Can’t they ever give us ANYTHING without taking it away or making it ambiguous?

  • Auli

    It would be nice to know. My hypothesis is that the writers were unsure about the show’s future and had prepared a final episode for the whole show where they would reveal RJ and put Jane and Lisbon together. That’s why they had originally put this shipper’s dream episode before the final. But when the show got renewed they probably change it so that they would still be able to tease us about their relationship for a season.

    I actually enjoy watching this slow development of their relationship. I loved the X-files and one of my favourite things about it was how they presented Mulder’s and Scully’s relationship. That one was SLOW, Jane and Lisbon are hurrying things up compared to Mulder and Scully. They also started from not trusting each other to friends/partners and finally to lovers/soul mates. We did see only really few things on-screen about their physical affection, couple of kisses and so on but I was completely happy about that. I would be completely satisfied if we got something small sings of affection between Jane and Lisbon and not steamy sex scenes (although I have seen some surfing pictures about Simon Baker so half-naked Patrick Jane would be more than welcome😀 ).

  • Carla Oliveira

    “I would be completely satisfied if we got something small sings of affection between Jane and Lisbon and not steamy sex scenes (although I have seen some surfing pictures about Simon Baker so half-naked Patrick Jane would be more than welcome”.

    So would I, Auli. hahaha.

  • suzjazz

    @auli “I would be completely satisfied if we got something small sings of affection between Jane and Lisbon and not steamy sex scenes (although I have seen some surfing pictures about Simon Baker so half-naked Patrick Jane would be more than welcome😀 ).”
    Me too! Me too! Shirtless Jane! Shirtless Jane! Totally!!!🙂
    sorry, I just can’t help it! ;D

  • Rose UK

    Not sure what happened to my last comment (disappeared into the ether), so I´ll just repeat myself:

    Thank you for the in-depth review, Violet! Goes without saying that it was amazing, and I loved the literary analysis. Thank you also for the mention, I was ever so pleased.🙂

    Re: this episode, I think everything I was thinking has been covered, but I just have one more point about the “need you” aspect. To me, it seemed as if “needing” was a theme of the episode; in fact, I thought a clue was again found in linguistic echoes – the killer says something like “Well, if you don´t need me…” as she excuses herself to leave the room in an early scene. Obviously, this is a very common phrase but then it turned out that she killed out of jealousy and because she wasn’t required for her husband´s needs – I think she even says she would have tried to accommodate him , or something. (And there was also lack of communication, of course). The widower also “needed” something he couldn´t get from his wife…

    So yes, people need to be needed.😉

    Just a thought! Now it´s time for me to go back and read all your interesting comments slowly and properly, as I admit I´ve been skimming in an attempt to catch up!

  • III Frogs

    Love Chizuruchibi’s cartoon! I was as confused as Patrick Jane that Wayne Rigsby wouldn’t be able to spot a sexy shoe! Wot, wot??

  • bloomingviolet2013

    Thanks, C Hill!🙂

    I checked what a “Coreopsis rosea ‘Mercury Rising’” looks like and it’s entirely possible that the flowers on the counter are those instead… I’m not a specialist (far from it) and both kinds look relatively alike: only the coreopsis looks a bit smaller but I don’t really know if it’s just an impression, since pictures can be tricky… Anyway, thanks for your input!🙂

  • bloomingviolet2013

    I agree with you, P: there was something between Lisbon and Bosco. It was definitely not one-sided; after all, she covered up for his secret: she wouldn’t have gone against her principles if Bosco hadn’t meant a lot for her. Now, what was left very ambiguous was the extent of those feelings she had for him: was it the lingering affection one would feel for a former lover, an unsatisfied love which she could recall albeit she had gotten over it or a mutual affection that had morphed on his part into love? There was an ambivalence in her behavior almost comparable to the one she showed for Jane at the time, the main difference being that Jane was becoming her actual partner, while her bond with Bosco was obviously in the past, meaning that she tended to team up with her consultant against her former mentor.

  • bloomingviolet2013

    “I don’t consider Lisbon a prim Catholic schoolgirl at all.”

    Obviously, Jane doesn’t seem to know much about what happens in Catholic schools, given that he called Lisbon a goody-two-shoes in ‘Something Rotten in Redmund’. At the time, she proved him wrong too by telling him that if she was never called in the principal’s office, it wasn’t because she didn’t do anything wrong but because she was clever enough not to be caught… It’s the same here, I think: Jane thinks he’s way more outgoing that Lisbon, mostly because she doesn’t like to be overly personal. That’s probably why he was unsettled enough by her casual affair with Mashburn to bring it on again years after the event: he was eagerly teasing her with the enjoyment of an “empty romance”, but he never actually expected her to take Walter on his offer. Clever as he may be, there is a *huge* part of her life that he knows next to nothing about…

    @Suzjazz wrote: “And even in a bar, outside of work, she is horribly embarrassed by sexual topics. Remember her surprise party with the stripper? I could hardly watch the scene without wincing. The embarassment is directly connected to her anger that she doesn’t get to sleep with Jane.”
    I disagree: for me, her Catholic upbringing meant that she thinks that what happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom. What is private needs to stay private. Hence her embarrassment at listening to Van Pelt and Rigsby mentioning their sex life on the radio: she admitted that she listened from time to time to that talk show; asking about sex is a normal part of couple therapy. If she was somehow a fan of the show, that means she isn’t bothered by others talking about sex. Therefore, what embarrassed her was violating Grace and Wayne’s intimacy: she’s their boss and their friend, yet the investigation allowed her to have a glimpse into something that she shouldn’t have. The lack of respect and privacy embarrassed her, not the sexual topic. And it may be awkward to listen to a sex talk when sitting alone, in the dark, with a man who is single and who might have admitted to loving you…
    Same with the stripper back then: she wasn’t angry because “she doesn’t get to sleep with Jane” (she never showed any sign of even checking him out for that matter…), but because she tries to maintain a professional façade and Rigsby had thoughtlessly undermined it in front of all her CBI colleagues. And what woman wouldn’t be embarrassed at being pawned at by a half-naked stranger in public when she was in her cop persona?

  • III Frogs

    “The lack of respect and privacy embarrassed her, not the sexual topic. And it may be awkward to listen to a sex talk when sitting alone, in the dark, with a man who is single and who might have admitted to loving you…”

    I think you are right on the mark here, Violet. I would add into the complex mix, And also your work colleague and consultant. It would be hard for anybody to finesse this ball of wax!

  • bloomingviolet2013

    Oldman, I guess it depends on how close you work with your lover: if you spend every minute of your work time, then every moment of your private time with the same person, it might get too much and you would soon feel the need to have more space… Now, given that Grace and Wayne work indeed very closely, you may be right, and that’s probably part of Grace’s reluctance to commit more to their relationship back then… But don’t forget two little things: first, it is a TV show; writers don’t necessarily follow through with what happens in real life (as Estatica pointed out somewhere bellow) If they want to show that the relationship works, they would eliminate every problem real couples may encounter in a work-place love story…
    Second point, I guess they decided to get them back together to cover up the relative lack of progress in term of concrete romantic development between Jane and Lisbon. And they probably did give the beta couple an upgrade because the show will be ending soon: there is a chance that Rigsby and Grace may stop working together in the future, depending on the fate reserved for the team after RJ or Jane’s demise…

    Anyway, you’re right, Cho would certainly agree with you!🙂 But on the other hand, given his past relationship with his adrenaline-junkie informant/ former hooker, he hasn’t always the best choices in term of healthy love stories either…😉

  • Carla Oliveira

    Perfect. I do agree. It’s too much embarrassing being approached for man like that stripper.and listening to the sexual privacy of friends, even worse, subordinates, even worse alone with that “pain in the ass” named Jane. He also dpdn’t like that stripper. He just don’t let a chance of play with her. That’s a pest! Because of this we love him.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Jane’s demise or Lisbon’s… Please don’t speak this even kidding . I can’t take this.

  • estatica

    I also think Jane has trouble figuring out Lisbon and mistakes her private nature with prudishness.

    In those scenes, I thought that the fact that she has feelings for Jane made her more uncomfortable than she would have normally been if she wasn’t there or if the people on the radio weren’t her subordinates.

    However, even if I don’t consider her a prude (she did have at least a one night stand with Mashburn and at least another date with that Jeff guy from narcotics), I think she is emotionally withdrawn (in the sense that she has trouble communicating her feelings to others) and tends to isolate herself from everyone, even those she loves and considers family. Perhaps this is a direct result from having to deal with an abusive father who committed suicide.

  • bloomingviolet2013

    Thanks, Estatica!😀
    I must say that I *love* your remark about “how people trying to kick off an addiction tended to act out sexually”. That’s a subtle and intriguing parallel you’ve been drawing here. Makes one wonder to what extend Jane is eager to end his quest to finally get to kill RJ or if he’s simply impatient to get rid of his addiction at long last to start a new life…

    Also the struggle you depicted between Jane and Lisbon and the dieting/backing metaphor is very interesting. We could see it the other way around too: Jane’s tendency to act on his own and his disrespect for anything related to rules= baking (mixing ingredients up to create something else, like clues and hits to come up with a theory/ using his skills/…); while Lisbon’s tendency to abide to law and rules= dieting (keeping her own desires, thoughts and capacities in check to conform to what others expect from her). And in this interpretation, Jane is slowly making her come along… Both theories work, I think: what’s important is the dissimilarity between those two.

    Thanks again for you great comment!

  • Rose UK

    I agree with Phoenixx – what’s interesting to me in this scene is that Jane waits to see how Lisbon will refute it (he knows perfectly well she will). He’s got a little smirk on his face because he’s amused to observe her. Kind of as if he’s saying, “Yes, Lisbon, how DO you view us?! Do tell!” and enjoying seeing her so discomfited. Which is why I think the “platonic love” comment was mostly another way to tease her (whether it meant more deep down is another matter… ;)).

    On previous occasions when Lisbon has had to clear up their relationship to strangers, she’s always been straight with the delivery. No awkwardness, factual, because she was really quite comfortable with how things stood between them. That “please!” and the facial expression show me that suddenly she’s unsure, confused, and she’s overcompensating for it via an exaggerated denial.

    I also think that the subsequent sex talk in the kitchen was more of a way for Jane to pierce through Lisbon’s armour, as opposed to him laying the groundwork for a different kind of relationship (though I’m not saying it can’t be both!). Lisbon generally has her guard all the way up – Jane can generally provoke her into a reaction (normally irritation) on cases, but he rarely gets anything out of her on a personal level. So I sense a certain glee that he’s got a new weapon/topic with which to prod her into giving something away. For a power player like Jane, finding something that he can use to make an unflappable professional like Lisbon, well, flap is fun, fun, fun!

    Sorry if I’ve repeated other people’s comments/views or stepped on some toes – there is so much to catch up on that I keep forgetting who said what when.🙂

  • Rose UK

    @ Auli – I was completely mad on the X-Files too! Same reasons as yours – the slow build-up, the growing signs of trust and affection. (See Violet’s Cultural References thread). My god, I think I know what I’ll be doing after TM’s season finale now – re-watching early seasons X-Files!

  • C Hill

    got locked out of the later replies on the epi re-order. thanks for the info. i was watching the interplay between rigs and vp and thought maybe there was a shuffle.

    also, can we discuss coffee carts? now or the next review. anyone have thoughts on their possible significance, if any?

  • Suzanne Davis

    I would not have been as embarrassed as Lisbon was by either the stripper or the overhearing of intimate talk by Rigsby and VP with Jane. I think her reaction is extreme. And I still maintain that she is frustrated because she’d like to sleep with Jane but her professional srandards won’t allow it.

  • Suzanne Davis

    In general, Lisbon is physically attracted to Jane–I was not talking about “checking him out” at any particular moment–it’s obvious. So why can’t she be sexually frustrated by this? Maybe I am missing something but I don’t understand the comments of thise disagreeing with me.

  • Suzanne Davis

    Me neither! I want them both alive at the end!

  • Carla Oliveira

    Guys, why am feeling like next week is the ultimate in my life (what a exaggeration!)? Please don’t leave alone! Hahaha. What a anxiety! Talk (writing, of course)! Sorry I’m getting crazy.

  • III Frogs

    I know what you mean, Carla. I am totally on edge! I just don’t want the writers to hurt me! 5 years is a long time to be love a show this much. I definitely have the jitters.

  • Carla Oliveira

    Thanks. I’m not the only one crazy here. Hahaha!

  • Rose UK

    Well, it’s all open to interpretation as we keep saying!😉

    I don’t necessarily believe that there’s a direct connection between Lisbon’s attitude in the car/bar and her feelings for Jane. Remove Jane from the equation and put, say, Cho in his place – do you think her reaction would have been different in that case, then? And if Jane had been nowhere near the bar, for example (or if he didn’t even exist!), I still can’t see Lisbon reacting any differently to the stripper. In the car… maybe. But only maybe!

    Just my take!😉

  • Lou Ann

    In my opinion, Jane doesn’t think Lisbon is really a prude. He just likes to tease her and push her buttons. It’s the way very close friends josh with one another.

    Jane loves to get a rise out of her, and vice versa. Hence their love of the back-and-forth bickering we so often see (and which I personally find delightfully amusing). Maybe the moniker struck a little too close to her own personal insecurities and that’s why she didn’t reply with a retort.

    Of course, there is always a modicum of truth in any bit of teasing, so he’s resorting to an extreme term to kid her about her more straight-laced nature.

  • suzjazz

    I have never been this worked up about a TV show before. I am so afraid that the season will end in an unsatisfying way!!!

  • bloomingviolet2013

    Suzjazz wrote: “In general, Lisbon is physically attracted to Jane–I was not talking about “checking him out” at any particular moment–it’s obvious. So why can’t she be sexually frustrated by this?”

    Because that’s simplistic: Rose is right, every reaction from her isn’t necessarily based on her unsatisfied feelings. She’s way more complex than that. If you take their hug in ‘The Crimson Hat’ for example: it was one of their single significant physical contact and she was embarrassed. As she was ever time he had hugged her before. But, she was also embarrassed when LaRoche hugged her after leaving his position as Hightower replacement, yet you can’t interpret that particular reaction as her feeling attraction for J.J. too… She’s just not a physical person, she doesn’t like close contact.

    The problem in your theory, imho, is that you take for granted that she’s aware of what is happening with Jane. We know for sure that Jane is attracted to her, because he’s proven more than once that he was interested in her assets (‘Red Moon’, ‘Strawberry and Cream’). But we only assume she feels attracted to him, because it’s visible her feelings for him run deeper than simple friendship. But, for her getting to that level of sexual frustration, to the point that it shows in her interaction with other men, it has to be pretty important already; she would have had to show it too by actively seeking him in a more intimate manner: longing glances, pretexts for touching him, and yes, “checking him out”, things like that. She’s not a good liar, if she was feeling that sexually frustrated, it would show; yet it does not. And, if she was that exclusively interested in Jane, she would also ignore every other man, not just the stripper: how do you explain that she showed interest in Kirkland before the whole thing went south?
    I’m not saying that she’s not attracted to Jane (that blush back in S1 when he told her he could read her mind hinted that she is, I think), only that she’s good at compartmentalizing and that it’s easier for her to be aware of feelings that are becoming a bit more complicated than she would have wanted, but to simply ignore an attraction she cannot control. I believe she doesn’t want to deal with attraction, so she ignores it. She’s a bit of a control freak, after all…

    “I would not have been as embarrassed as Lisbon was by either the stripper or the overhearing of intimate talk by Rigsby and VP with Jane. I think her reaction is extreme.”

    Depends on the person, I guess. I for one would be pretty embarrassed and angry if a stripper was inappropriately touching me in front of my colleagues during a semi-official gathering. Especially if the job was one like hers, traditionally reserved to men and where a woman might have had to prove herself more. I was even impressed that she didn’t slap the stripper when he touched her butt…

  • bloomingviolet2013

    I didn’t mention Lisbon, ladies. Only Jane and RJ… And I want both Jane and Lisbon alive too, by the way…

  • bloomingviolet2013

    “Of course, now the writers are presented with a new challenge: where to take their bad guys from. Obviously VanPelt’s numerous insane boyfriends are no longer an option now. Too bad….”

    Huh huh, don’t forget that Duncan guy…😉 Wonder if he’s going to make another appearance…

    (Thanks very much for your support, All-I-Need!😀 I’m awfully behind in replying to comments, still trying to catch up, sorry…)

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